Rager

[Mado]

Hey, I was randomly thinking about this at work earlier, how's your computer build coming along? I know it's been quite a few months since you originally posted that thread on the build, so I was curious how far you'd gotten.

[TheRAGER]

Unfortunately I have had a lot of time off from work, even in the middle of summer which is normally the busiest time of the year So my income has been significantly less then I originally thought. Unemployment has been helping me a lot with paying the bills but that leaves me with nothing extra. Luckily im working right now. I dont know for how long. I actually have to commute from long Island NY to New Haven Connecticut which is about 2-3.5 hours drive each way :eek01:

I will get all the rest of the parts i need coming in December or as late as Jan.. In Dec. I will be getting my Vacation check, which this year will be around $4,500 and Non-taxed! ^_^ so somewhere around 2 grand will go into finishing the computer.

What I have right now:
NZXT Tempest ATX Mid-tower Case
3- Ocz Gold 2GB Tri-Channel DDR3 pc10666 memory. (may get 1 more)
3 ram coolers (I know not needed but i wanted them anyway, may get 1 more)
Ultra X3 1000watt Power Supply
1- 500gb HDD (plan one getting 1 more and maybe using raid 1)


Its good im wait till december anyway to buy more parts, maybe new things will be out, or things will drop in price (im hoping anyway).

This I plan on getting:
Mother board Preferably 4+ RAM slots
Intel Core i7 Processor (not sure what speed just yet, something close to 3.0)
Need atleast 1 good Video card that could be hooked to another (SLI or Crossfire)
Windows 7
Solid State drive maybe like 10-20gigs for the operating system only!
May get a cpu cooler instead of using stock
2 HD monitors probably about 22' each, decent quality
sound card if not already part of the MOBO

i thinks thats it...

I will be using New egg and Tiger direct for ordering the parts (whichever has the better deal at the time.)

[Ryujin]

Your mobo on board audio will most likely be fine for you. I'm also willing to bet 6 gigs of ram will be plenty for you. Was just reading benchmark articles and going over 5 or 6 gbs of ram shows almost no actual increase in speed right now.

Right now the way to go video card wise would be one or two of ATI's new HD 5870 cards in crossfire, unless nvidia releases something new before you buy your stuff.

[TheRAGER]

Your mobo on board audio will most likely be fine for you. I'm also willing to bet 6 gigs of ram will be plenty for you. Was just reading benchmark articles and going over 5 or 6 gbs of ram shows almost no actual increase in speed right now.

Right now the way to go video card wise would be one or two of ATI's new HD 5870 cards in crossfire, unless nvidia releases something new before you buy your stuff.

Thanks. If this thread is still around in december we shall talk about it then. I'm excited! ^_^
I have always heard that editing programs (for games and such) are very demanding on you comp. but I never knew just how demanding so I want to make sure that I either have the extra power or have room to upgrade to what I need should a new more demanding program comes out. I do plan on starting college for game design sometime soon. may be forced to wait till either the summer, next sept or as late as next winter if money is the issue. I plan on finding all that out pretty soon.

[Mado]

Good luck with school. Dast is currently going to school for video game design. He's enjoying it, but he's also wishing he had chosen a better school to attend.

The reason I was asking about your build is because I would like to purchase more ram and upgrade to Windows 7 soon, which reminded me of your build. I plan on purchasing a wide screen monitor soon, and going the dual monitor route (although my second monitor will be my current one, which is a 15", non-wide screen) within the next few weeks. Although I'm probably going to lose one of my jobs soon, so purchasing W7 and an extra gig or two of ram is out of the question for now. I was thinking about asking for one or both for Christmas. I could use a new graphics card too, but it works fine for the games I play now, I really want the upgraded OS and ram just to make the normal stuff I do faster and easier. If I don't restart my computer for a week or so, it gets extremely sluggish, and creating graphics in photoshop is a pain in the ass. My processor is decent and I have three gigs of ram, but I'm also running the 32 bit version of Vista, so I'm not utilizing all 64 bits of my processor.

[Ryujin]

Ya, I'd go with 6 GB of ram, you can always add more later. Right now processors aren't fast enough for 6 GB of RAM to be a bottleneck in a PC though.

[Epyon]

The reason I was asking about your build is because I would like to purchase more ram and upgrade to Windows 7 soon,

What kind of RAM are you looking at because it'll likely be pretty cheap for only a gig or two. And depending on its performance, you may want to get a whole new set. If you've got an older mobo, it's not likely that it can handle really quick RAM.

Right now the way to go video card wise would be one or two of ATI's new HD 5870 cards in crossfire, unless nvidia releases something new before you buy your stuff.
If you're looking strictly for performance and not too worried about cost, the 295 GTX is still better by performance than the 5870. In my experience, the drivers are usually a bit better and more reliable when a game first launches, even for games by companies officially sponsored by ATI (like Valve, whose in-house machines all contain Nvidia cards). EVGA is fantastic about customer support for DOAs and the like, and their step-up program is fantastic.

[Mado]

What kind of RAM are you looking at because it'll likely be pretty cheap for only a gig or two. And depending on its performance, you may want to get a whole new set. If you've got an older mobo, it's not likely that it can handle really quick RAM.


Yeah, I was also thinking about just replacing all of my ram, getting 4 gigs total, with faster ram. I opened up my tower before to check what kind of ram was compatible, but I don't remember anymore. I do remember that the ram I have isn't very good though.

[Epyon]

Yeah, I was also thinking about just replacing all of my ram, getting 4 gigs total, with faster ram. I opened up my tower before to check what kind of ram was compatible, but I don't remember anymore. I do remember that the ram I have isn't very good though.

Do you know if it's DDR or DDR2? I doubt it's DDR3, but I guess it could be that as well.

[Ryujin]

What kind of RAM are you looking at because it'll likely be pretty cheap for only a gig or two. And depending on its performance, you may want to get a whole new set. If you've got an older mobo, it's not likely that it can handle really quick RAM.


If you're looking strictly for performance and not too worried about cost, the 295 GTX is still better by performance than the 5870. In my experience, the drivers are usually a bit better and more reliable when a game first launches, even for games by companies officially sponsored by ATI (like Valve, whose in-house machines all contain Nvidia cards). EVGA is fantastic about customer support for DOAs and the like, and their step-up program is fantastic.

The new ATI 5000 line have DirectX 11, which no other cards do. Two HD 5850s are faster than a single GTX 295 and the same price or cheaper than most good brands making the 295s. Two 5870s are a lot faster.

Until Nvidia comes out with some new cards, and/or lowers their prices, ATI is holding the top position for speed vs price at all price ranges.

[Ryujin]

EVGA is a good company for Nvidia cards. For ATI I'd go with Asus.


The GTX 295 is about the same (even slightly better in a couple of cases) when playing games at lower quality or non GPU intensive games, but with those games we're talking about FPS of like 100+, in which case it doesn't really matter at all. The only game the GTX 295 runs better is Resident Evil, which makes sense because it was the flag ship game for the card, and was tailored specifically for it.


http://media.bestofmicro.com/W/Q/225386/original/Stalker%204xAA.png

http://media.bestofmicro.com/W/B/225371/original/Crysis%208xAA.png

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433-6.html

[Epyon]

Those Crysis numbers seem a little odd. Anywho, this review of the 5870 gives a lot more extensive numbers and actual benchmarks rather than just FPS numbers. They also used ASUS Nvidia cards, and from everything I've seen EVGAs perform better.

http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/3Dmark_01.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/3Dmark_02.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/3Dmark_03.png

Full review starts here (it's a fat one, like 8 pages or so): http://www.techspot.com/review/198-ati-radeon-hd-5870-review/page1.html

[Ryujin]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if that is meant as an agreement or an argument? Your post only confirms that a card that costs 2/3 the amount of the EVGA GTX 295 barely is outperformed...

The only way you should go the GTX 295 route is if you're planning on buying two of them, for $1200... The GTX 285 is more expensive than a single 5850 and less powerful.

I showed benchmarks of graphics intensive games cranked up to high quality because if you're planning on spending $300 on video cards, those are the only numbers that matter. At that point you want to know how long your cards will be top of the line. I posted the two most relevant benchmarks IMO, but if you checked the review, the two 5850's beat the GTX 295 at everything else as well.

Oh, and your numbers failed to show two 5850's in crossfire, which is the most relevant comparison to a single GTX 295, since it is the closest in price.

[Epyon]

There's a lot more tests, which is why I linked the article. I also said if he was looking for performance only, because the fact of the matter is the GTX 295 is still the best. Nvidia is likely to drop the price sometime in the next few months as well, although if he were to buy two now it would cost $1000 or $1400 if he wanted the best of the best.

Here's the benchmarks of graphics intensive games at absurd resolutions:

http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/CoD_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/CoH_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/Crysis_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/ETQW_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/Fallout_01.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/FC2_01.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/L4D_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/RE5_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/SC_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/SFIV_03.png

[Epyon]

"This forum requires you wait 30 seconds between posts" blah blah blah

http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/STALKER_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/TLR_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/UT3_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/WiC_03.png
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/198/bench/Wolfenstein_03.png

[Ryujin]

What you're missing here is the correct comparison. The GTX 295 vs the 5850 in crossfire (or 5870s in crossfire). If you're looking at spending under 1100 dollars on video cards, there is no better combination than an ATI combination.

Of course, if you were looking at that much, you could also look at putting 4 5850's in crossfire, which would probably beat 2 GTX 295s in SLI.

Which is all beside the point, because that would make no sense. It would make more sense to spending 500 dollars on two 5850s now or two 5870s, and save the 300-600 dollars more you would spend on buying dual GTX 295s for later, since you would probably see no actual performance difference in spending the extra money. Then when there WOULD be a difference, just upgrade your video cards.

Any way you cut it, the GTX 295 is out performed for the same amount of money spent on ATI cards, and two GTX 285s (the next step down from 295s) are outperformed by two HD 5850s for 60 dollars less overall.

So, as I said before, until Nvidia makes a $50+ drop on their 285s or 295s, they lose the battle for performance and price. Not to mention you're more future proof having DirectX 11 until Nvidia comes out with new cards with it.


Epyon, if you're going to show benchmarks, show benchmarks that are relevant to the conversation. Which would be the GTX 295, two HD 5850s, and two GTX 285s.


Edit:

I will get all the rest of the parts i need coming in December or as late as Jan.. In Dec. I will be getting my Vacation check, which this year will be around $4,500 and Non-taxed! ^_^ so somewhere around 2 grand will go into finishing the computer.


With that price range in mind, I would once again say two HD 5850s in crossfire win out, or a 5870 with room to add in another later. He obviously won't be putting two GTX 295s in SLI under that budget (which would also be a ridiculous waste of money).

[Epyon]

Dual 5870s are not in the same price range as dual 5850s. The standard 5870 has a price tag of about $380. Regardless, the only reason I gave that information is because he said he wanted performance and the fact of the matter is, as far as pure performance is concerned, the GTX 295 is still the champ.

Edit: It also seems fishy to me that your benchmarks also don't include an FPS for the 295 at the highest resolution, which is where the 295 begins to outperform other cards.

[Ryujin]

What you're missing here is the correct comparison. The GTX 295 vs the 5850 in crossfire (or 5870s in crossfire). If you're looking at spending under 1100 dollars on video cards, there is no better combination than an ATI combination.

Of course, if you were looking at that much, you could also look at putting 4 5850's in crossfire, which would probably beat 2 GTX 295s in SLI.

Which is all beside the point, because that would make no sense. It would make more sense to spending 500 dollars on two 5850s now or two 5870s, and save the 300-600 dollars more you would spend on buying dual GTX 295s for later, since you would probably see no actual performance difference in spending the extra money. Then when there WOULD be a difference, just upgrade your video cards.

Any way you cut it, the GTX 295 is out performed for the same amount of money spent on ATI cards, and two GTX 285s (the next step down from 295s) are outperformed by two HD 5850s for 60 dollars less overall.

So, as I said before, until Nvidia makes a $50+ drop on their 285s or 295s, they lose the battle for performance and price. Not to mention you're more future proof having DirectX 11 until Nvidia comes out with new cards with it.


Epyon, if you're going to show benchmarks, show benchmarks that are relevant to the conversation. Which would be the GTX 295, two HD 5850s, and two GTX 285s.


Edit:




With that price range in mind, I would once again say two HD 5850s in crossfire win out, or a 5870 with room to add in another later. He obviously won't be putting two GTX 295s in SLI under that budget (which would also be a ridiculous waste of money).



See the bold, underlined sections. I'm talking about two 5850s, which are $260 each, and beat the GTX 295 in every benchmark except for Resident Evil 5. No, two 5870s are not in the same price range as two 5850s, which is why I mentioned them as an alternative, because a single 5870 gets only slightly less performance than a GTX 295 for well under $100 less (at least $120 less than any decent EVGA 295 card) and two of them completely crush the GTX 295. So my point is that for the same price you can beat the GTX 295 and get DirectX 11 (the 5850) or for slightly less performance you can save $120 (a single 5870), or for much better performance you can spend $780 (two 5870s). Any way you cut it, the ATI cards beat out the GTX 295. Yes, you could put two 295s in a SLI set up for $1000+, but you'd barely be beating out two 5870s for $780, and for a difference I guarantee you wouldn't notice in anything out right now. You'd be better of saving the 200 dollars and upgrading your video cards again in two years.

So a single GTX 295 is not the current champ, since for the same price (or less if you go with a higher quality EVGA card) you can get better performance.

For the record I'd still go with the dual HD 5850s over the 5870s, they seem to be the best of the best for price verse performance right now.

Or if you really wanted to save money, you could get two HD 4870s for $320, and they seem to slightly beat a single GTX 295 sometimes, and slightly lose sometimes in benchmarks. Funny, for 200 dollars less you can have the same thing as well. Although you wouldn't have the DirectX11 that way, and they don't beat the 295 solidly like the two 5850s do.

[Epyon]

If you're looking strictly for performance and not too worried about cost, the 295 GTX is still better by performance than the 5870. In my experience, the drivers are usually a bit better and more reliable when a game first launches, even for games by companies officially sponsored by ATI (like Valve, whose in-house machines all contain Nvidia cards). EVGA is fantastic about customer support for DOAs and the like, and their step-up program is fantastic.

Anyways, here are some of the benchmarks you asked for.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-CoD-WaW-1680.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-CoD-WaW-1680.png)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-Crysis-Warhead-1680.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-Crysis-Warhead-1680.png)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-Fallout3-1680.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-Fallout3-1680.png)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-FC2-1680.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-FC2-1680.png)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-HL2Ep2-1680.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-HL2Ep2-1680.png)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-GTA4-1680.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-GTA4-1680.png)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-RDG-1680.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-RDG-1680.png)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-SCS-1280.png (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/10/HD5k-CF-SCS-1280.png)

And they all seem to point to what I said, that the GTX 295 is the best card in terms of performance. Unfortunately I can't seem to find thorough benchmarks with the HD 5000 series and the 295 in SLI, but the numbers are still higher than the 5870s when I've compared them myself.

[Ryujin]

None of those images show up. I already showed you benchmarks comparing the 5000 series to the GTX 295, and the GTX loses every single time against 5850s in crossfire...

[Epyon]

And they all seem to point to what I said, that the GTX 295 is the best card in terms of performance. Unfortunately I can't seem to find thorough benchmarks with the HD 5000 series and the 295 in SLI, but the numbers are still higher than the 5870s when I've compared them myself.

Card, not cards. And in SLI, the 295 beats them out.

The images all work fine for me.

[Ryujin]

They all say 'no deep linking please'.

Hahaha, I guess you've never heard of actually arguing about the same thing. Like when someone asks which $5,000 dollar car to buy, I guess you'll suggest the Lamborghini.

[Epyon]

Unfortunately I have had a lot of time off from work, even in the middle of summer which is normally the busiest time of the year So my income has been significantly less then I originally thought. Unemployment has been helping me a lot with paying the bills but that leaves me with nothing extra. Luckily im working right now. I dont know for how long. I actually have to commute from long Island NY to New Haven Connecticut which is about 2-3.5 hours drive each way :eek01:

I will get all the rest of the parts i need coming in December or as late as Jan.. In Dec. I will be getting my Vacation check, which this year will be around $4,500 and Non-taxed! ^_^ so somewhere around 2 grand will go into finishing the computer.

What I have right now:
NZXT Tempest ATX Mid-tower Case
3- Ocz Gold 2GB Tri-Channel DDR3 pc10666 memory. (may get 1 more)
3 ram coolers (I know not needed but i wanted them anyway, may get 1 more)
Ultra X3 1000watt Power Supply
1- 500gb HDD (plan one getting 1 more and maybe using raid 1)


Its good im wait till december anyway to buy more parts, maybe new things will be out, or things will drop in price (im hoping anyway).

This I plan on getting:
Mother board Preferably 4+ RAM slots
Intel Core i7 Processor (not sure what speed just yet, something close to 3.0)
Need atleast 1 good Video card that could be hooked to another (SLI or Crossfire)
Windows 7
Solid State drive maybe like 10-20gigs for the operating system only!
May get a cpu cooler instead of using stock
2 HD monitors probably about 22' each, decent quality
sound card if not already part of the MOBO

i thinks thats it...

I will be using New egg and Tiger direct for ordering the parts (whichever has the better deal at the time.)
To me, 1 means 1 and that he'll expand later if he only gets one.


If you're looking strictly for performance and not too worried about cost, the 295 GTX is still better by performance than the 5870. In my experience, the drivers are usually a bit better and more reliable when a game first launches, even for games by companies officially sponsored by ATI (like Valve, whose in-house machines all contain Nvidia cards). EVGA is fantastic about customer support for DOAs and the like, and their step-up program is fantastic.
This statement is what I was talking about when I made my suggestion. This is still the case.
They all say 'no deep linking please'.


That's why I went back and linked them all. Just click on wherever it's not showing up and it'll take you to the image.


Hahaha, I guess you've never heard of actually arguing about the same thing. Like when someone asks which $5,000 dollar car to buy, I guess you'll suggest the Lamborghini.
Don't be a smart ass. Look at my first quote. If it fits the budget, it's still the best card. It's something to consider if you want to build the best machine possible. Besides that, the 300 series is looking like it'll be released by first quarter 2010.

[Ryujin]

No, if it fits the budget, then two 5850s are the best CARDS. It makes absolutely no sense for going with a less powerful GTX 295, even if you want to upgrade and add another later. By that point you're 100% definitely going to want directx 11 and it will have been wasted money for less performance.

A month ago, you would have been right. With the 5000 series, you're wrong. Every PC site review will agree with me.

Edit: And clicking the images doesn't work either.

[Epyon]

A month ago, you would have been right. With the 5000 series, you're wrong. Every PC site review will agree with me.



This makes the Radeon HD 5870 roughly $120 cheaper than today's undisputable performance champ, the GeForce GTX 295.


http://www.techspot.com/review/198-ati-radeon-hd-5870-review/page1.html

You've also disregarded anything with dual 295s, which still are performance champs. Beyond that, DX11 will be able to run on hardware capable of 10.1 and the only game that currently supports it is BattleForge, which doesn't seem like a great reason to get it to me. Regardless, Rager you should wait to buy the card until last unless a sale pops up.

[Ryujin]

Wow, you actually just proved my point even more. I was arguing for dual 5850s, but it looks like the 5870 at $120 less than the GTX 295 still beats it in quite a few benchmarks for games, and all but one or two that it loses in are only by a couple of frames per second.

Oh, talking about dual vs single cards, the GTX 295 is technically two cards in one already anyway, which is why from my understanding it doesn't scale as well in SLI as other cards.

On the horizon from AMD is a dual-GPU version codenamed "Hemlock XT," which is essentially a pair of Radeon HD 5870 GPUs on a single PCB. Looking at our benchmark results today this is an almost frightening prospect, yet one we really want to see! The Hemlock XT is due out next month, along with the Juniper XT and Juniper LE, which will be known as the Radeon HD 5770 and Radeon HD 5750 respectively.

That would make the Hemlock a card similar to the 295, with a two GPUs in one card deal. And seeing as it already beats the GTX 295 in almost half those benchmarks...

I'm still confused about that link, as they didn't even have the 5850 to compare yet. Said they couldn't sample it yet. So how is that a counter argument to my dual 5850s point? Regardless, you actually further prove my point.

Even so, I'll have to agree with you, Epyon, Rager should wait a bit before he decides on a card even if he is ready now, because video cards are in a transition period, and its best to wait until all the price drops are settled and any new generations of cards have come out.

But I'm still right, and thanks for the link backing me up =]

[Epyon]

You have a bad case of selective reading.

[Cloud]

Nerd fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

[Mado]

Do you know if it's DDR or DDR2? I doubt it's DDR3, but I guess it could be that as well.

I finally opened up my case again to take a look, and found the specs for my motherboard:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&dlc=de&cc=de&docname=c00906129

[TheRAGER]

I finally opened up my case again to take a look, and found the specs for my motherboard:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&dlc=de&cc=de&docname=c00906129

Thats not bad.

This is the current Mobo im thinking of getting:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4306129&CatId=4068


I get to start shopping the week of december 7th

[Ryujin]

I've heard bad things about MSI as a company (mostly about their customer support). Also, unless you really want an i7-950 or 975, I'd stick with the 1156 socket and get an i7-860. The 1366 socket i7s are supposedly a lot less stable and all the advice I've heard about building PCs around that socket has said to stay away unless you're a very experience builder. The 860 is about the same as the 920, btw, and I would guess the 1156 socket will be better for future upgrades as it is a newer and more stable socket.

[TheRAGER]

I've heard bad things about MSI as a company (mostly about their customer support). Also, unless you really want an i7-950 or 975, I'd stick with the 1156 socket and get an i7-860. The 1366 socket i7s are supposedly a lot less stable and all the advice I've heard about building PCs around that socket has said to stay away unless you're a very experience builder. The 860 is about the same as the 920, btw, and I would guess the 1156 socket will be better for future upgrades as it is a newer and more stable socket.

Actually I do plan on getting the Core i7 950.
So is what you are saying the socket 1366 is ok for the 950+75s but not with the others?

[Ryujin]

Well, the 1366 is only for the 920, 950, 975. What I'm saying is you won't notice a performance difference between the 860 and the 920, except the 1156 socket with the 860 is more stable and the motherboards are MUCH cheaper for the 1156 socket. So, I'm saying definitely don't go 920 when you can go 860. If you absolutely have to have a 950 or 975, go for it, just keep in mind there have been quite a few problems with people getting them set up, and the motherboards for that socket type are $100+ more than for the 1156 socket.

I'm not trying to say getting the 950 or 975 is a bad idea, its just a lot more money for what you get considering the steep price increase in each chip in Intel's higher line and the more expensive motherboard. The 950 and 975 will both definitely be faster than the 860, but probably 98% of people wouldn't notice the difference.

I also highly doubt Intel will keep making chipsets for the 1366 socket. I'm not saying they WILL for the 1156, since they like to change sockets so much, but I'd say its likelier than new chips for the 1366.

Oh, one last thought. I know people had reported being able to overclock the 920 safely up to similar speeds as the 975 (funny considering the $600+ price difference), but I have no idea if the 860 is as overclock(able?). You'd have to research that if you considered that route.

I have an i7-920 in my new laptop and I have yet to use more than 30% of my CPU, while running l4d2 (very CPU intensive game, compared to most that are GPU intensive), and using web browsers, cuteftp, and AIM on my other monitor; although there are obviously more CPU intensive tasks you could be doing than these programs (such as decoding video, burning DVDs, etc.), most people will never even get these i7s near their potential.

Edit: I lied, there is also the 960 for the 1366 socket. I completely forgot about the 870 for the 1156 socket. That seems to give you slightly lower speeds than the 950 for 10 dollars less on the CPU, and $100+ less on the corresponding motherboards.

[Ryujin]

With rapidly-increasing prices over $200 offering smaller and smaller performance boosts in games, we have a hard time recommending anything more expensive than the Core i5-750. This is especially the case since the Core i5-750 can be overclocked to great effect if more performance is desired, easily surpassing the stock clock rate of the $1,000 Core i7-975 Extreme.

Perhaps the only performance-based justification we can think of for moving up from a Core i5-750 is that LGA 1156 processors have an inherent limit of 16 PCIe lanes for graphics use. This is an architectural detail that the LGA 1156-based Core i5 and Core i7 processors share, so if a gamer plans to use more than two graphics cards in CrossFire or SLI, the LGA 1366 Core i7-900-series processors are the way to go.

To summarize, while we recommend against purchasing any CPU that retails for more than $200 from a value point of view, there are those of you for whom money might not be much of an object and who require the best possible performance money can buy. If you're buying several hundred dollars worth of graphics and are worried about a potential platform bottleneck, we recommend the following CPUs:


Its about i5-750, but its just an example of how the differences aren't huge.

[TheRAGER]

I just did a bunch or research as well.

1366= PCIe 2 x16 and DDR3 Triple channel
1156= PCIe 1x 16 and DDR3 Dual Channel

Its a decent difference.

From what I heard both are 'future proof' and should be receiving more options in 2010.

1366 has more upgrade and Overclocking options the 1156.

You are right though. for the better performance you are paying way too much more.

After thinking about if for a while and some research i think i'll pay the extra for the 1366

I really appreciate you helping me.

[Ryujin]

1366= PCIe 2 x16 and DDR3 Triple channel
1156= PCIe 1x 16 and DDR3 Dual Channel

That will only ever come into play if you had more than two cards in SLI/Crossfire, which is rather doubtful.

You are correct about the overclocking, however.

[Dark Defender]

The new ATI 5000 line have DirectX 11, which no other cards do. Two HD 5850s are faster than a single GTX 295 and the same price or cheaper than most good brands making the 295s. Two 5870s are a lot faster.

Until Nvidia comes out with some new cards, and/or lowers their prices, ATI is holding the top position for speed vs price at all price ranges.

You do realize that the 5850s are like $500 a piece right?

[Ryujin]

Actually $310.00 right now on newegg.com. They were 260 with free shipping when I wrote that, but there's been a lot of price gouging since they've been in such high demand. I haven't seen one available on newegg until this morning in weeks.

[Epyon]

They're still not available, but the cheaper ones are getting a lot of hate from reviewers. The XFX ones seem to be quality though. All the prices are likely to come down when Nvidia drops the 300 series, which is due in the first quarter of next year.

[Ryujin]

That's funny because all the reviews I've read have been good. But yeah, I wouldn't buy them at over $300.

[TheRAGER]

I would like to get one that has support for DirectX 11
and the Mobo I plan on getting supports CrossfireX AND SLI so either of those are great. On each card I want to spend between 3-$600.
I'll get one now and up to 3 more later if needed.

[Ryujin]

You see diminishing gains as you add more cards into crossfire/SLI. Anything more than two cards basically means you might as well have had 1 much more powerful card, or two more powerful for cheaper 99% of the time. I would advise to just get the best card you can fit in your budget when you buy, maybe buy one more later when you need more power (6 months to a year), then after that getting different cards if you want to continue upgrading at a later date.

[TheRAGER]

You see diminishing gains as you add more cards into crossfire/SLI. Anything more than two cards basically means you might as well have had 1 much more powerful card, or two more powerful for cheaper 99% of the time. I would advise to just get the best card you can fit in your budget when you buy, maybe buy one more later when you need more power (6 months to a year), then after that getting different cards if you want to continue upgrading at a later date.

Thats pretty much what i was thinking of doing, like i said I'm only getting 1 for now and if needed i may add more later.

Would you be able to recommend any 1 card that supports DirectX 11 and wont cost more more then $600

[Dark Defender]

Actually $310.00 right now on newegg.com. They were 260 with free shipping when I wrote that, but there's been a lot of price gouging since they've been in such high demand. I haven't seen one available on newegg until this morning in weeks.

Oh ok maybe i was looking at the mor expensive ones in that series or something, but i know the prices are higher now.

[Epyon]

Thats pretty much what i was thinking of doing, like i said I'm only getting 1 for now and if needed i may add more later.

Would you be able to recommend any 1 card that supports DirectX 11 and wont cost more more then $600

Wait until January. The 300 series will be out so you'll have more options and all of ATI's cards will be cheaper because of it.

[Ryujin]

Well, ATis most expensive 'single' card (it has two GPUs like the GTX 285) isn't over $600. Can't really buy a single card over $600 right now. If you insisted on getting a card now, I'd say get a 5870 if you can find one at a reasonable price, if you're willing to wait a bit I'd agree with Epyon in waiting on Nvidia's cards. Either they'll be a viable option for you, or they'll drive down ATI's prices.

I was just saying the 5870 as a good card that was high end but not $500+. I personally thought that at the time, the 5850s for $260 were the best bang for your buck out of any current cards, but good luck finding those prices right now.

Other speculation is ATI wants to keep the 5850's at around $300 since their performance in crossfire isn't much worse than the 5970, and they didn't want to undercut themselves by $60.. *shrugs*

[TheRAGER]

This was the best 5870 I found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150456&cm_re=5870-_-14-150-456-_-Product

I am new so i dont really know the brands and whats better. Im going off the numbers listed and thats it.

Also from what I have been reading LED screens are way better then LCD but Do they make LED monitors? cant seem to find any.
I want to get 2 monitors each $250 or less and between 20'-22
Im really looking for the best for your buck with these. I dont need anything crazy

with the "5ms" you want that number low right?
And "10000:1" you want that number larger right?

[Ryujin]

Good brands for video cards are BFG, ASUS, Diamond, EVGA, and HIS. I've heard horrible things about XFX from people who build and sell PCs in forums.

Which is another thing... I wouldn't trust most electronic reviews on Newegg. Half the time the people reviewing are stupid and don't know what they're talking about or how to work electronics.

I'm not sure about the LED thing, but yes, the lower the ms and the higher the contrast ratio or whatever they call that, the better. However, sometimes monitors or TVs with the exact same numbers still look differently.

The best monitor brands are Samsung and ASUS. Find a good monitor made by them in your price range and go for it. If you wanted to go cheaper, Acer makes decent stuff for good prices, but the best of the best is definitely ASUS and Samsung.

Edit: Just looked at the price on that card you linked... Dude, at that price for a shit brand, no way, I'd recommend you forgo DirectX 11 and got a GTX 285 before I recommended buying a 5870 for $440, no free shipping, and made by XFX.

Definitely wait at least a bit on the video card. No reason to screw yourself by $100 or getting a lower quality card just to get it a month earlier.

[Epyon]

Occasionally you can find a gem among the lesser-known monitor brands, but I have a 19" Samsung as my main monitor right now and it's gorgeous. Not just the screen itself, but the monitor casing is nice and sleek as well.

[TheRAGER]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna look around a bit.


What I have right now:
NZXT Tempest ATX Mid-tower Case
3- Ocz Gold 2GB Tri-Channel DDR3 pc10666 memory. (for now)
3 ram coolers (I know not needed but i wanted them anyway)
Ultra X3 1000watt Power Supply
1- 500gb HDD (plan one getting 1 more and maybe using raid 1)


What I plan on getting:
Mother board Preferably 4+ DIMMS slots (6+ would be ideal)
Intel Core i7 Processor 950
Video card that could be hooked to another (SLI or Crossfire) DirectX 11 Would be nice, probably gonna wait a little longer for this.
Windows 7
Solid State drive maybe like 20gigs for the operating system only!
May get a cpu cooler instead of using stock, probably gonna test the temp before i decide that.
2 HD monitors probably about 20-22' each, decent quality preferably under $250 each
sound card if not already part of the MOBO. Nothing crazy at all

[Ryujin]

Most motherboards come with decently integrated sound, so that most likely won't be a problem for you.

[Epyon]

Most motherboards come with decently integrated sound, so that most likely won't be a problem for you.

Indeed. Any decent mobo has got good sound. Mine has integrated HD sound and it's delicious. Sound cards and even physics cards are pretty much obsolete now.