New stuff next round.

[TheRAGER]

I figure we still needed this topic.

so anything about the androids:borg: finalized?

[Mado]

The Ki Absorb move, not being able to be detect by Detect Powerlevel or Scouters, no ability to train/spar, Weighted Clothing has no benefit...I think that was it.

[Reno]

I remember Ryujins suggestion about weighted clothing. Not sure how to word it really, but...

Right now:
Training gives you 1% gain. If you had a weighted shirt, +4% gain/loss, and you self trained you would gain/lose 5% of your powerlevel.

If you won a fight you would gain 14% of losers powerlevel.

Future:
Training gives you 1%. If you had a weighted shirt, +4%(or whatever it's changed to) gain/loss, and you self trained you would take the 1% of your powerlevel and then add 4% of that number, to make your total gain/loss.

If you won a fight you would gain 10% of the losers powerlevel, plus 4% of whatever the 10% was.


I think the weighted clothing gain would need to be changed a little bit, giving more but actually giving less.

Wow...I have a bunch of ideas involving this formula but I just can't put them into words right now, haha...

...To be continued.

[snakes]

Correct me if I am wrong (its been a while since I saw DBZ) but didn't the weighed cloths also hide the users PL a bit, I seem to remember Goku and Picallo's PL jumping after they took of there armor in the fight with Raditz. If anything this could be done by lowering the PL when being detected by the same amount of the sparring increase.

Example: Person A has a PL of 100 and some weighted pants. Weighted pants has a sparring increase of 4% so when ever someone scans him his PL is shown as 4% lower then normal = 96.

[Reno]

Ok, going to try again...

All races should gain 1% for a self train, and 10% of the losers powerlevel for winning a fight.
Some races, like saiyan, should get a bonus, but right now a saiyan gets an extra 5% for training and extra 15% for fights. This makes them gain 6% for training and 25% for fights. The numbers should be lowered I feel, but to make it understandable I'll just use the current numbers.

A saiyans calculations for gaining powerlevel after training should be that they gain 1% like every race, but then they get a bonus 600% (again, should be lowered) of whatever the 1% is. This will equal the same amount, but when you add weighted clothing into the mix...
A saiyan has a full set of clothes that currently gives an extra 17%. If a saiyan trains he should still gain 1% like every race(Instead of 6% + 17% = 23%), but then gain an extra 617% of whatever the 1% is. I think a full set of clothes should give something like a 100% bonus, but I'm not even trying to think of the numbers yet...

If a saiyan wins a fight, he should gain 10% of the losers powerlevel like every race, but then gain an extra 15% of whatever the 10% was. If the saiyan had a full set of weighted clothes, 17%, he should gain an extra 32% of whatever the 10% number was.

This will make the insane gains the saiyans currently get a lot lower, but still very helpful.

Damn, this is still sounding confusing to me...It sounds so good in my head, but when I try to type it out it's difficult.

...To be continued

[Reno]

The move fly currently adds 5% to physical attacks. A 2% punch turns into a 7% punch. I think the formula can be applied to this as well.
A flying punch should do 2% of the users powerlevel, and then whatever that number is should get the 5% bonus. And that makes the total damage.
I think fly would need to give something like a 10% or more bonus, but I just used the 5% to avoid confusion.

A human with 2 swords and flying currently does 35% of their powerlevel for damage.
I think having a second weapon should just add 100% to one weapons damage. If they were flying it should add a total 105%.
So you would figure out what 15% of your powerlevel is. Then add all the bonuses together, 100% for having a second weapon and 5% for flying, and add that to whatever the 15% was.

[Reno]

Ok, time for some examples.

----------
I am a saiyan. My powerlevel is 10,000.
I self train with a full set of weighed clothing.
----------

In the current system, the saiyan would gain/lose 1%+5%+17%=23% powerlevel. 23% of 10,000 is 2,300. This would put the saiyan at 7,700 out of 12,300 powerlevel.

My vision for the future calculations would be that the saiyan gets 1% of the 10,000 base powerlevel like every race, which is 100. He would then get a bonus 600% for being saiyan plus 17% for the full set of weighted cloths for a total of a 617% bonus. The 100, 1% of the saiyans powerlevel, would then get the 617% added to it make the grand total for gain/lose 717. This would put the saiyan at 9,283 out of 10,717 powerlevel.




Wait, I think I fucked that up. Saiyans currently gain an extra 500% after training, compared to the other races. Not 600%. Whatever.

[snakes]

I was told there would be no math, please don't make me break out my calculus book in order to play this game.

Anyways, a full suit of weighted cloths looks like it costs ~35k I could be wrong but I am just eye balling the numbers. Now what you are purposing means that at PL 10k for a investment of 35k credits I could get a a whoping 17 extra PL from sparing. Let me run some numbers and see if I can come up with something better.

[Reno]

Yeah, in the current system it gives a 17% bonus for a full set. This turns a 1% train into an 18% train for non-saiyans.

I suggest in the next round that a full set should give something like a 100% bonus, but before I can come up with a real number, I need to find out how the system will work. So I just used the 17% to avoid confusion.

[snakes]

ah ok, that makes more sense.

[Epyon]

I think that flying could be toned down, but not so much. I think that if someone nailed you with a flying punch if would hurt a hell of a lot more than just a regular old punch. This way of figuring is going to make flying nearly useless early in-game.

[Reno]

Ok, I'll throw out some suggestions on what stuff should be next round...These really aren't exactly what I think they should be, but maybe it will help make this all understandable.

Saiyans gaining 6% of their powerlevel for training compared to 1% for the other races is overpowered. I think saiyans should gain something like 3% compared to the 1% for non-saiyans. Half saiyan/half humans should gain 2% instead of 1%.
In the system I was trying to explain above, if the saiyan had NO weighted clothes, they would get 1% like every other race plus 200% of whatever that is. The half saiyans would gain 1% like the other races plus 100%. Equals the same thing until you add in weighted clothing. Weighted clothing would be combined with the race bonus, then added to the 1%.

Saiyans gaining 25% of losers powerlevel after a fight compared to the 10% for the other races should be changed to something like they get the 10% like the other races plus 100% of whatever that number is. Half saiyans should get the 10% like the others plus 50% more. Something like that.


Maybe a full set of weighted clothes could give an extra 100% after trains or fights. This would turn a non-saiyans trains into 2% gains/loses and their gain after fights into 20% of losers powerlevel.
And this would turn a saiyans gains after trains into 4%(1% of base powerlevel plus the 300% total bonus for race and clothes) and their gain after fights would be 30%(10% of losers powerlevel plus the 200% total bonus for race and clothes)


Flying should be changed to something like a 25% increase in damage. Meaning you find out the damage from the 2% punch, then add 25% onto that.

[snakes]

Ok I did some number crunching on a spread sheet. This is my result for 3 Trains a day.

Standard 1% Gain.

10000/10000
9900/10100
9799/10201
9697/10303

23% Gain

10000/10000
7700/12300
4871/15129
1391/18609

1% + 1%*617%

10000/10000
9283/10717
8515/11485
7692/12308

1% + 1%*700% (100% Weight)

10000/10000
9200/10800
8336/11664
7403/12597


And Just for fun

(1%+1%) + ((1%+1%)*600% )

In other words add the 100% weighted cloths into the standard gain instead of into the racial gain

10000/10000
8600/11400
7004/12996
5185/14815

[Reno]

Thanks, snakes.

Blame Ryujin for his good idea on weighted clothes...He has had me thinking about this the past few days and different ways of adding it into the game. :-p

[Mado]

The idea was to make numbers for self training not percentages, and only increase at certain powerlevels. For example, until you hit 5,000 powerlevel, you should gain a bit more from each train with the new system than with the 1% gain of the old system. Everything after 5,000 powerlevel it should be less than a 1% gain. The idea is to make fighting and sparring the main way to gain powerlevel, but to change those as well.

[Reno]

Let us know when you have thought of the official numbers, and what they are.

I still think it would be best to make the changes near the end of the current round. That way the next round doesn't become a beta round for the new ideas/system.

[snakes]

Maybe do a 2 week beta between rounds, maybe make it alittle longer if needed?

[Reno]

It feels like every round of PM is a beta round...lol
We come up with new ideas, and before you know it the refs are talking about a new round...

[Mado]

Let us know when you have thought of the official numbers, and what they are.

I still think it would be best to make the changes near the end of the current round. That way the next round doesn't become a beta round for the new ideas/system.

I was thinking to have it like this:

0-999 pl = 10 pl gain
1,000-1,999 pl = 20 pl gain
2,000-14,999 pl = 40 pl gain
15,000-??? = ?? gain (less than 150)

And I'm not sure from there on out. I don't want self training to become such a small gain that it's useless, but I do want it to be a small enough gain so that you really need to be fighting or sparring to gain a decent amount of powerlevel.

Also, something else I remember posting was that while sparring, only the weaker person sparring would get a gain, not the stronger one. Now, I'd like to either do that, or have the stronger one gain a smaller amount than the weaker one.

[Mado]

Maybe do a 2 week beta between rounds, maybe make it alittle longer if needed?

That could work, and it could give refs a chance to come up with new quests/sagas.

It feels like every round of PM is a beta round...lol
We come up with new ideas, and before you know it the refs are talking about a new round...

Yeah...we're always thinking of ways to improve the rpg. Its both good and bad. But I don't plan on starting a new round until there's a real reason to (most planets blown up; majority of good or evil players have everything under control, etc.).

[Cloud]

I've personally never been crazy over the idea of gaining a set amount of pl per train like you're suggesting, Matt. However, I do believe the current % gains on training need to be toned down. The idea with the % gains in this thread is a lot of work, but not a bad idea at all.

[Mado]

I've personally never been crazy over the idea of gaining a set amount of pl per train like you're suggesting, Matt. However, I do believe the current % gains on training need to be toned down. The idea with the % gains in this thread is a lot of work, but not a bad idea at all.

If we kept percentages, then I would still want it to change at intervals. I think 1% is too much once you're really high in powerlevel. I suppose we could keep it at 1% until you reach ~4,000 powerlevel, then lower it...?

[Reno]

My favorite part of the game is at the lower levels when requirements for moves actually matter. The longer we can stay around 10k pl, the better. This does change some races though, mainly ones with transformations.
I don't mind set pl gains at all. I'm just curious how a race like the Saiyans will gain pl compared to the other races. And I'm still curious how weighted clothing gains will work.

[Reno]

Correct me if I am wrong (its been a while since I saw DBZ) but didn't the weighed cloths also hide the users PL a bit, I seem to remember Goku and Picallo's PL jumping after they took of there armor in the fight with Raditz. If anything this could be done by lowering the PL when being detected by the same amount of the sparring increase.

Example: Person A has a PL of 100 and some weighted pants. Weighted pants has a sparring increase of 4% so when ever someone scans him his PL is shown as 4% lower then normal = 96.


There was talk about this, but I'm not sure if the refs ever came up with anything offical...

[Mado]

I've personally never been crazy over the idea of gaining a set amount of pl per train like you're suggesting, Matt. However, I do believe the current % gains on training need to be toned down. The idea with the % gains in this thread is a lot of work, but not a bad idea at all.

Is there a reason you don't like the idea of a set amount of a gain?

My favorite part of the game is at the lower levels when requirements for moves actually matter. The longer we can stay around 10k pl, the better. This does change some races though, mainly ones with transformations.
I don't mind set pl gains at all. I'm just curious how a race like the Saiyans will gain pl compared to the other races. And I'm still curious how weighted clothing gains will work.

I figured if Saiyans got a 15% bonus to training gains it would work well. At a 10 pl gain, it would be 11.5, rounded up to 12. So they'd still be gaining more, but it'd be a lot lower. At a set pl gain of 40 they'd be gaining 46. So it's still an advantage, but it brings it down a lot
And I'm still in love with Ryujin's idea of adding weighted clothing gains after the final number. So if the gain were 40 pl, with 17% worth of weighted clothing it'd be 46.8, rounded up to 47. Do you think that's too little of a gain?

There was talk about this, but I'm not sure if the refs ever came up with anything offical...

Yeah...I really want to do something with weighted clothing taking off your current powerlevel, but I'm still not sure of the best way to do it. We could just take off the % from your current powerlevel, but I'm not sure if it would become too confusing...And would it be current pl*weighted clothing % - current pl? Or would it be base pl*weighted clothing % - current pl?

[Epyon]

Ryujin had a good list of PL gains on the old forum. Those numbers seemed mostly fair and decent to me. I feel like saiyans should maybe get a bit more extra than that to show that they really are superior fighters. Weighted clothing might need a boost to be worth all the cash you have to lay down for it, or a steep price drop.

[Mado]

Ryujin had a good list of PL gains on the old forum. Those numbers seemed mostly fair and decent to me. I feel like saiyans should maybe get a bit more extra than that to show that they really are superior fighters. Weighted clothing might need a boost to be worth all the cash you have to lay down for it, or a steep price drop.

Yeah, Snakes and I were talking and he was calculating everything out. I think we'll change Saiyan's bonus to 25% instead of 15%.

[Mado]

I think Snakes and I came up with some good numbers. Namek meditation being brought down to 1%. Saiyans get a 25% bonus after self training. 0-2,000 pl = 2% gain, 2,001-4,000 = 1% gain, 4,001+ = .5% gain. And we were thinking Namek's self training would start out at 1%, since they should rely more on meditation than training to gain powerlevel. I believe this worked out to Namek's being able to double their powerlevel in 11 days with the max amount of meditates and self trains, while Saiyans doubled their powerlevel in 18 days with the max amount of self trains, and the 18 days should decrease if they fight enough to be about even, I think. I was also thinking of lowering the self train gain to .1% after a certain powerlevel, maybe 100,000?

[snakes]

Here the numbers I've run

Namekians -1% Training Bonus From bring under 2k PL (Othr races will get 2%)
1% Meditation

Training 3x a day Meditating 3x a day



150/162 Day 1
150/174 Day 2
150/186 Day 3
150/198 Day 4
150/210 Day 5
150/222 Day 6
150/234 Day 7
150/246 Day 8
147/262 Day 9
141/280 Day 10
135/298 Day 11
129/316 Day 12



Note this is just self-meditating and self-training.

If anyone wants to see how i reached the numbers i'll post all my work. just seemed like a lot to post if no one cared.

Its kinda odd how the Pl's stay @ 150 for a while then start moving.

[Reno]

Awesome, it all sounds good to me! I think you'll be able to come up with good numbers for everything. If not, we can have that "test period" to see if it all works as planned.

Cheers.

[ville616]

Damn can't wait for all this to happen

[Ryujin]

My numbers were basically percentages that changed more dynamically than what Mado and Snakes are talking about and stayed at a percentage of the first number when it changed. Like with my idea, when you go to 2000 it would change to 1% (or whatever I had it) of 2000, but just stay a base number. So training from 2000-4000 PL is always a gain of 20. I can repost my ideas for numbers, if you want another perspective. Looking at the PHP, it looked easier to me to change it to varying base number gains than varying %s.

[snakes]

Please do, I would like to hear another opinion on how it should be done.

[Ryujin]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb95/jdorty/PM.jpg

First column is the base PL needed to be at each separate gain, second column is the PL gained each time trained when you are at, or above the PL in the first column. So, when your PL is anywhere between 1000-1999, you gain 19 PL every time you train. 2000-3999 is a gain of 34 PL.

The third column is the amount of days it would take in training to get to the next level (doubled) of PL. So to get from 1000 PL to 2000 PL would take 17.54 days without any need for healing and no fights, racial bonuses, weighted clothing, meditating, etc.

The last column is the percentage being used of the number in the first column.

[Ryujin]

Matt, for a quick comparison:

Your way would take 11.67 days to get from 1000 to 2000, mine takes 17.54
Your way would take 23 days to get from 2000-4000, mines take 19.61
4000 to 8000. Yours: 46.67 days, Mine: 22.22 days.

Basically for the first couple thousand PL, mine is slower than yours. Then mine is faster than yours between 2000 and somewhere around 256,000. I'm not exactly sure on that, but its somewhere around 256,000 where mine gets slower than yours.

I can graph it if you'd like =]

Basically, mine is a more gradual shift.

Oh, and I'm assuming a gain of 20 PL for 1000< Base.

[TheRAGER]

so when is this new round starting anyway? sometime in 2011 right?.... RIGHT!??!

[TheRAGER]

Ok after a lil math, Ryujin says that training his way would take you about2702.58 days to get 1 billion PL (solely off of training with no bonuses) That's almost 7 and a half years!!

a round in PM never lasted more then a few months.

[AkuTenshi]

Ryujin says that training his way would take you about2702.58 days to get 1 billion PL (solely off of training with no bonuses) That's almost 7 and a half years!!

Thats the point. You arent supposed to be at 1 billion pl. The game is relative on numbers, who needs 1 billion pl? I dont feel that makes sense, when Goku needed all of the energy from the universe in the spirit bomb to defeat his final enemy, Omega Shenron. Therefore you shouldnt be getting pl higher than 600k anytime soon. We should be playing on a much smaller playing field.

[TheRAGER]

600k pl would still take around 1 year.
Im just glad thats not the only way to gain PL!

and I thought that Goku defeated him with the Explosive Dragon fist?

[Ryujin]

What Aku said, plus the fact that fighting should be a bigger source of gains than training, especially when you're stronger. That's not factoring in meditation, sayian/half saiyan training bonuses, different gravities, weighted clothing...

[ville616]

What Aku said, plus the fact that fighting should be a bigger source of gains than training, especially when you're stronger. That's not factoring in meditation, sayian/half saiyan training bonuses, different gravities, weighted clothing...

I agree with this plus in the show after goku got healed from the Ginyu fight he was able to keep up with freeza I'm not saying an outrageous boost but a decent one.

[Ryujin]

Kinda tired, didn't read through all of the first posts too thoroughly yet.

I disagree that 'only' adding 17% to the gain isn't very much. ANY consistent gain to your training, with no repercussions, is huge in my opinion.

For example, with a full weighted set using my numbers, from 1000-2000 you would be gaining 22.23 instead of 19. It would take you 15 days, instead of 17.54 days, to reach 2000 PL. If you're gauging from 1000 to get to 8000 PL, it would take you 50.74 days instead of 59.37 days. Call me crazy, but getting an extra 9 days of training every 2 months seems like a pretty good boost to me, especially for an item that you have until you die and never runs out of charges and you can't 'outgrow' by getting too strong for the item....

I don't think its necessary to change things like the damage fly adds into the same kind of percentages. We could lower it to 2-3%, but I think its unnecessary to make it 5% of the damage done.


Note: I've been using 3 trains a day for reference. I know you can train up to 4 times a day, but these are just general numbers for comparison against alternate methods.

[Mado]

I like your numbers, Ryujin. Can you calculate how long it would take a Saiyan to reach each tier with the 25% bonus and then how long it would take a Namek to do the same with a Meditate of 2%?

[Ryujin]

Saiyans with a 25% gain to their training gain:

From 1000-2000: 14.03508772 days
2000-4000: 15.68627451 days
4000-8000: 17.77777778 days
8000-16,000: 20.51282051 days
16,000-32,000: 24.24242424 days
32,000-64,000: 26.66666667 days


This is as opposed to the days it takes without a training bonus:
17.54385965
19.60784314
22.22222222
25.64102564
30.3030303
33.33333333

To get from 1000 to 64,000 PL:
Saiyans: 118.9210514 days
No Bonus: 148.6513143 days

As you can see, it is still a good boost, but not nearly as overpowering as before.

Nameks were a little harder to do in a spreadsheet with their meditate gain being a constant % and not a base number, so these numbers are more a rougher estimate.

1000-2000: ~7 days
2000-4000: ~7.5 days
4000-8000: ~9.7 days

Rather hard to get exact days for the intervals, so I'll skip to the next step.

To get from 1000 to 64,000 PL would take a Namek about 48.3 days. As you can see the Namek would now be a lot more powerful than any other race, not to mention meditating adds to current PL, leaving less need for rest or healing. I'm not sure why you were saying 2%, as I thought we had discussed it being 1%?

Changing the Namek meditate to 1% would make the gain from 1000 to 64,000 take about 70 days. At .5% it would take about 94 days.

My suggestion would be to make meditate at somewhere between .01% and .04%, probably closer to .01% than .04% IMO. The thing with having this base PL gain in training that gets lower as you get stronger means that as you get stronger meditate gets more and more useful.

[Reno]

Resting/healing will be a major factor. Your charts may take "however many" days to reach the next level, but when you factor in resting/healing, it will take a lot longer. Or it will cost a lot of money. Or be free in the case of nameks meditate.
However, you charts don't include the unpredictable amounts of powerlevel you gain from fighting. And you can gain big amounts of powerlevel from fights.

[Ryujin]

True Reno, but that's kind of the point. This is just a rough estimate to show differences in different options for training and meditating and stuff like that, but how many fights you get into depends totally on how many you can find and the strength of the enemies your ref has you fight. This also in a way limits how high you can get in PL depending on how you ref handles things. Once your training isn't giving you a very big boost, the main source of gain will be fights, which the ref can determine how strong of enemies he lets you fight.

Hopefully this does two things: gives the ref slightly more control on players not getting super powerful before certain story plots have ocurred, and making fights a lot more useful of a way to gain PL than they currently are. Not to mention hopefully now players can save up more money and buy cooler items before everyone is in the millions, or billions, of PL.

That's also why I wanted to simulate a character of each race, saying each of them trained/meditated as much as possible, and got into fights say with an enemy of 50-50% of their PL every day or every other day. I would simulate this out for a month or two and see the differences in PL at that point. It will still be a rough estimate, obviously, but should help us gauge who is way over powered or way underpowered.

I don't think the races should all be equal. Some are better early game, some mid or late game. Some might be better as an addition to a team, etc. For example, humans may get stronger quicker and duugos start stronger, so they might not have the potential of a saiyan late game, but they have the potential to either help a saiyan team mate tremendously early on, or to attempt to slow down the progress of other saiyans in the beginning to give them an edge in the long run. And time freeze could be as useful team move as well. Same thing with devils getting the saibaman and devil's star for helping them progress quickly right off the bat.

[Ryujin]

Maybe it would be better to have each idea in a separate topic? So smaller ideas don't get stuck behind all of this training talk.

Anyway, I was wondering with androids if when they absorb, does that add to their base and current, or just their base? Maybe have half of it add to their current also? So if I had 50/100 PL and absorbed a guy with 100 PL, I would be at 80/160?

[Mado]

Maybe it would be better to have each idea in a separate topic? So smaller ideas don't get stuck behind all of this training talk.

Anyway, I was wondering with androids if when they absorb, does that add to their base and current, or just their base? Maybe have half of it add to their current also? So if I had 50/100 PL and absorbed a guy with 100 PL, I would be at 80/160?

Yeah, it'd probably be a good idea to have each idea have its own topic.

And the way I do it now is the same I do it for all races; any gains from a fight are added solely to base powerlevel.

[Mado]

Regarding the Nameks and meditate, I think it should vary as well. I don't want to make it so small that it does almost nothing early on, but then again it can't be as high as 1% as later on that just gets ridiculous. So I think starting it at 2%, then lowering it to 1%, then lowering it again, etc. is a good idea. I don't want it too low though, as meditate is a Namek's biggest advantage, as they don't get transformations or anything.

[Ryujin]

I still think starting it at 2% is too high. Maybe 1% until they reach 10,000, then .5% until 100,000, and then lower it to .1-.3%.

[Mado]

I thought you said somewhere about having it lower to .01%-.04%?

[Ryujin]

Lower if you want it to start at 1 or 2%....

[AkuTenshi]

I don't want it too low though, as meditate is a Namek's biggest advantage, as they don't get transformations or anything.

Wow, I feel we should take a step back...

1) In DBZ, Nameks did transform into "Super Nameks" (ie lord slug) who explains that through enlightenment they become much more powrful

2) If nameks dont have any form of transformation, but we see them as a fighter class, then shouldnt they be able to gain 12x more pl than all the other races if they are going to compete with any of the transformations?

3) In our calculations of pl gains, we arent including the bonus that saiyans and half-saiyans receive in fights. Along with the fact that a saiyan can gain 50% more pl in certain circumstances if they are going to lose. Wont this make saiyans/half-saiyans the only fighter class worth using at that point? I feel that if we are saying that fighting will be the key in next round, then saiyans are going to do what they do best, fight and gain too much pl. I then would not understand why I would want a namek except as a secondary fighter class.

[Ryujin]

I guess that would depend on whether we're keeping saiyans at a 25% gain from fights, or if that's changed to 10%, then 15% added on to the gain? I wasn't sure how you were doing it.

With them getting 25% as it is, Nameks gaining 2% are very comparable, if not superior, in PL gain and adding to current. If we're making it 15% off the 10% gained, Nameks are much stronger.

Needless to say either way Saiyans, Nameks, and Androids will be much more powerful than the other races. But it was already like that anyway, with the abilities of the other races supposedly helping that out...

Edit: Fighting will be key in general, but that doesn't mean you're going to get an AIM update battle every day. If you're getting a battle every 2-5 days against an enemy with 75% of your PL, the nameks are looking much better...

[Epyon]

In the long run Nameks become weak though because they don't get transformations, and the same thing could happen to androids. Nameks can also merge with other Nameks as Piccolo did with Nail, etc. The fact of the matter is androids and Nameks still have whatever PL your scouter says they do and that's pretty much it, unless you happen to have picked up Kaioken.

[Epyon]

Oh, and I mentioned this is AIM to Mado a while ago, but I don't like the way dying works right now. It is in essence a reward. Yeah, you're wasting time and not questing, but Kaioken is a damn useful move and the PL gain from training in the other world is immense. Spirit Bomb is as well I suppose.

I also think the move progression could change a bit. I feel like it was too easy for me to come across Instant Transmission and that Hide PL came too early as well. I don't necessarily see IT as something that should be as difficult to get as, say, Tribeam, but it shouldn't be available so early.

[Reno]

Nameks, despite not having transformations, will have more powerlevel than any race at a point....and the namek will continue to increase his lead from there. Transformations are nice, but in the end it comes down to how good your natural race bonuses are. And nameks have it the best when it comes to this.

I liked everything you said in your above post however, Epyon.
Dying sometimes seems like a reward for great powerlevel gains, especially early in the round before anyone has weighted clothing. And has anyone ever died 5 times in Planet Mado's history? I can't remember anyone dying more than 3 times, and that was during the time where all you guys did was fight each other everyday. Perhaps something could be done with dying to actually make it a penalty. Maybe 1 free death, and from there you start losing pl each time?

I hate the move instant transmission. I honestly think it ruins a game. Not the least bit fun and it's so overpowered. And if you don't start on Earth, sucks to be you...I know a planet yadrat was in the works, long ago...I think the move should be moved there, and the whole point of the planet is to go on a giant quest, earning the peoples respect and trust, and at the very end you are taught instant transmission. Something like that. Or just remove it from the damn game because it's uber lame.

[Mado]

Nameks, despite not having transformations, will have more powerlevel than any race at a point....and the namek will continue to increase his lead from there. Transformations are nice, but in the end it comes down to how good your natural race bonuses are. And nameks have it the best when it comes to this.

I liked everything you said in your above post however, Epyon.
Dying sometimes seems like a reward for great powerlevel gains, especially early in the round before anyone has weighted clothing. And has anyone ever died 5 times in Planet Mado's history? I can't remember anyone dying more than 3 times, and that was during the time where all you guys did was fight each other everyday. Perhaps something could be done with dying to actually make it a penalty. Maybe 1 free death, and from there you start losing pl each time?

I hate the move instant transmission. I honestly think it ruins a game. Not the least bit fun and it's so overpowered. And if you don't start on Earth, sucks to be you...I know a planet yadrat was in the works, long ago...I think the move should be moved there, and the whole point of the planet is to go on a giant quest, earning the peoples respect and trust, and at the very end you are taught instant transmission. Something like that. Or just remove it from the damn game because it's uber lame.

Oh, and I mentioned this is AIM to Mado a while ago, but I don't like the way dying works right now. It is in essence a reward. Yeah, you're wasting time and not questing, but Kaioken is a damn useful move and the PL gain from training in the other world is immense. Spirit Bomb is as well I suppose.

I also think the move progression could change a bit. I feel like it was too easy for me to come across Instant Transmission and that Hide PL came too early as well. I don't necessarily see IT as something that should be as difficult to get as, say, Tribeam, but it shouldn't be available so early.

Agreed. I'm starting a new thread about changing death.