Sensu Beans

[Mado]

I know we talked about it in another thread, but I wanted to keep it a bit more organized. I think Sensus should be taken out of the shops, and only be available through certain quests. I think starting planets should have these quests, but maybe not other planets? And the reward would only be a limited amount of them. Ideas?

[Epyon]

I agree, but I think maybe Korin or someone could still sell them or give them away for favors and such, and if IT is a lot harder to get then it still makes getting to him somewhat of a journey.

I feel like they should still be available through some means on all planets, but maybe not as easily.

[Ryujin]

I think I agree with Epyon. I also don't see why they couldn't still be random drops on enemies. The problem only comes in when you can buy as many of them as you want at any time.

[Reno]

Have you ever rested for 3 days? It hurts...

[Mado]

Yeah, random drops I still agree with. I mean mainly just taking them out of stores.

[Ryujin]

I never agreed with everything from the shop page being in each shop. For example, my starting shop on Namek didn't have any team items or spacecraft.

I think this would be solved by just making each shop unique and having different items. You could always make some shops later in the game have items unique to those shops that aren't on the shop page for fun.

[Mado]

I never agreed with everything from the shop page being in each shop. For example, my starting shop on Namek didn't have any team items or spacecraft.

I think this would be solved by just making each shop unique and having different items. You could always make some shops later in the game have items unique to those shops that aren't on the shop page for fun.

Right, I do that too. The thing is, I don't like not having any list at all of things in the game, because then what are people to look forward to? I was kind of thinking the same thing with moves. I dunno, I like how players have to find stuff/figure it out, but there's a point where it gets out of hand.

[Ryujin]

I didn't mean take down the shop page. Just say: "Only the misc. and sparring/fighting items from the shop page are available at this shop." or "Only the items that cost 3000 or less from the shop page are available at this shop."

[Mado]

Right, and we could still include Sensu Beans so that newbs know they're available, but just put on there that they aren't sold in shops, or just put "Quest-only Item".

[Reno]

Hard to remember, but weren't the sensu beans originaly sold only at korrins in PM? 400 credits. Then when we found out how hard they were to come by and unfair to people not on Earth we added them to shops for 800 credits.
Past is the past, so I don't give a shit what reason we changed them for now. If you want to limit beans, I'm for it. If you want to keep things close to how they are now, cool. Maybe it will make things more interesting. I just hate resting haha

[Mado]

Hard to remember, but weren't the sensu beans originaly sold only at korrins in PM? 400 credits. Then when we found out how hard they were to come by and unfair to people not on Earth we added them to shops for 800 credits.
Past is the past, so I don't give a shit what reason we changed them for now. If you want to limit beans, I'm for it. If you want to keep things close to how they are now, cool. Maybe it will make things more interesting. I just hate resting haha

I still think if we take Sensus out of shops that we should come up with some other item that maybe heals you 20%, or maybe multiple items that heal you. The worse ones would be 20%, and the better ones up to 70% or something.

[Ryujin]

This would definitely make healing a more useful move =]

[Ryujin]

I have always hated resting too. I just don't like the idea of people buying 10-20 sensus at once.

I think sensus should be a fairly common drop. The reason for taking them out of shops should be to keep them under control from having 50 at a time. Of course if a player is conservative with them, he should be able to save up a decent amount. I see no reason why if you fight a lot you shouldn't almost always have a sensu every few days. This would keep players from having to rest 3 days every week or two, but also keep sensus better regulated.

[Dalun]

IMO, I think only one sensu bean a person be allowed per combat and perhaps some kind of cap on the amount you're able to carry? 3 or 5 sound good? It seems cheap to me that someone can have 20 sensu's and just keep on healing during combat. In the series they'd only use one sensu per person per combat as kind of a last resort.

As for the resting, I think the whole point in the resting feature is to slow the amount of PL you're able to gain. I think this is a good thing as it seems like PL gains are happening pretty quick. I mean in the show one season would take them from a PL of say 1,000 to maybe 100,000. The next season they'd go from 100k to 1million, etc. From what I've heard it sounds like people are already way surpassing these amounts. I do agree that I enjoy watching my character grow, but maybe make the PL gains lower so that way it's more epic when you character makes it to a certain level. Maybe lower the amount of the PL you can gain from training or perhaps some kind of cap be included for PL gains from training. Like some kind of graded scale where once your PL reaches a certain point you can only gain say 5,000 per day from training until you hit 1 million (and then it goes to 50k per day), and then sparring could be 10,000 per day until 1million and then 75k per day. Whereas the battles still result in higher PL gains. That way it focuses the RPG on the battles which is how DBZ was. Training in the series always gave PL gains, but the emphasis was on learning new moves. The PL gains were always small or spread out over time and it was the epic battles where they gained a lot. I dunno, just my 2 cents. I'd like to see training result in lower amounts, so that your down time is spent getting mediocre PL gains, looking for quests/moves and finding epic battles to fight.

[Ryujin]

Dalun, read the post 'changes for the next round' or whatever its called for our ideas on slowing PL gain already.

I think it might be a cool idea to only be able to take a sensu or two every few hours? Say the healing effect can only be transferred through your body so often and be effective. It would make sense that your body can only properly break down so many sensu beans at a time. I don't agree with only being able to hold a certain amount of sensus, however.

[Reno]

Right now, I train 3 or 4 times in a day with weighted clothing, and then my pl is so low I have to rest. So I pop a bean, and the next day repeat the process. I only need to use 1 bean a day. Next round we will be gaining a lot less I imagine so I'll only need to rest/bean once every 3 days if I had no clothing, or so. No clue really just my guess. Basically what I'm getting at is the "once every 3 hours" doesn't matter at all.

In fights I don't see a lot of problems with taking sensu beans...I mean, if you really want to stop someone from using beans, charge up a big blast and one-hit KO them.

[Ryujin]

It would only effect fights really. And the problem comes in when two players are fighting with a simuilar PL and one has more sensus.

With the new system you shouldn't have to rest very often from training, more likely from fighting. Hopefully if you're fighting you'll find sensus more often, though. At 1000 PL you're gaining 19 per train (with my numbers). Even as a saiyan with full weighted that would take like 10 days of constant training before you were forced to rest. And it would take even longer as you get higher in PL.

[Reno]

You mentioned the new system will be more about fighting, so I figured I'de post this here...

How dedicated are the refs going to be? If the main thing is fighting...I'm pretty sure everyone is going to be IM/texting the refs every chance they have to get a fight going.
It's easy to say the game is mainly going to be about fights, but will the refs have time to ref a million fights and still update everyday?

[Ryujin]

I don't think I said the game would be 'mainly' about fights, but that it would be a more effective way of gaining PL than it currently is.

I would say expect 2 live update fights every week... Fighting is still possible over e-mail, especially once ki attacks become involved.

[Reno]

I would like to see better npc's next round...Ones that have really good moves or items, or fight well together in a group.

I'm not a fan of quests being scaled base on each characters pl/moves...If you win, it's because the ref let you win, if you lose it's because the ref made you lose. I always liked the risk involved in PM. Some npc's were very strong, and if you picked a fight with them tough luck. The refs don't play favorites. They don't manipulate dice rolls. You come across an easy or hard quest, you do what you can.

I can remember as a ref figuring out all, or atleast most, of my npc's before the round started. The only scaling I would do is the amount of sensu beans and the move kaioken. If a member knew kaioken, and could use something like x10, I knew my npc needed it as well. If a member didn't use any beans in a fight, my npc's wouldn't either...if my member used 5 beans, guess what? My npc used 5 beans. Yes, I agree this is just as lame as scaled powerlevels/moves for quests though.

[Rikter]

I think for the sensu bean deal that if you buy them from Korin, they should be cheaper and he should limit the amout he can give you. In the show he always was telling Goku those were his last ones. He had like one sensu plant, so maybe you can buy them cheap from Korin but the number you get is limited...like 3-5 or something. As for other planets, maybe Korin is an entrepeneur and sells his sensu beans to other shops/planets...that kind of stuff. So there would be an increased cost off planet or in other shops. Comments?

[Epyon]

I think for the sensu bean deal that if you buy them from Korin, they should be cheaper and he should limit the amout he can give you. In the show he always was telling Goku those were his last ones. He had like one sensu plant, so maybe you can buy them cheap from Korin but the number you get is limited...like 3-5 or something. As for other planets, maybe Korin is an entrepeneur and sells his sensu beans to other shops/planets...that kind of stuff. So there would be an increased cost off planet or in other shops. Comments?

Maybe sensus from Korin can be cheaper than other places, but they still shouldn't be cheaper than they are now. A limit on the amount you can buy sounds good, and I think that's the direction we're heading with them. I also think Mado's idea about having ones of varying effectivenesses is a good one.

[Rikter]

I don't think a sensus effectiveness should change. Maybe there could just be an item from a shop you can buy. Like a healing vial or something with different concentrations (20%, 50%, 100%) that heal you based off of their percentage. I would say to make them way overpriced, well not ridiculously but decent, and readily available with alot on supply. That way if you can't buy sensus...you can buy these health vials for a sizably fee. Then you can still have the dying/sensu healing deal when you come back. These new vials wouldnt do what sensus can like the replenishing you from revive sickness or something like that.

[Cloud]

My idea when I reffed is I had Saiyan Healing pods on my planet. You spent one day in there and you were fully healed. There were a handful of these spread out across my map at varying cost depending on the strength of the area they were located in. Of course, someone can be a dick and destroy these, but that's just part of the game.

I also added unique items on my planet that weren't available on the shop page, but would heal certain percent of powerlevel. I think that's what we need, more items available that are not on the shop page. The unique items would be on a list that only refs can access and approval has to be made by other refs for the more powerful items. These can be handed out mostly through the completion of quests. I think this will add a little variety to the items portion of the game. I think it's somewhat silly that all the exact same items are available on all the planets.

[Dalun]

I really like the saiyan healing pods idea/having places you could seek out to recover. (With maybe a one day recovery period or two turns/etc). However it seems like if a weakened player were to go there a strong player would just wait around and kill people as they show up to those healing places.

I have two real issues with the sensu beans.

1. In battle - I really feel like sensus (sensi?) should be limited to one use per battle. That way it really focuses more on a player's skill and move-set to help them win the battle. If you have two people facing off, and they're about equal PL and have numerous sensu beans I feel like the potential is there for the battle to last until someone runs out of beans. If you're facing someone a lot stronger than you, you don't have the option to continue to heal up until you take them down, you're forced to run away. I really feel that's more how the series was like. Sensu's were used as a last resort, not a continuous type of thing.

2. Outside of battle - The problem with the sensu's outside of battle is that this negates some of the races natural abilities and bonuses. If a saiyan has access to a ton of sensu beans, their PL gain is going to be exponentially more than a namekian whose advantage was in meditating. I feel like the carrying amount should be lowered to like 3 or 5 too to make them more precious.

I'm a fan of the potions idea with potions giving 20% or 50% PL restore (again I'd only say use one in battle), and having limited quantities available on these items (either quantities or carrying capacity).

That's just my input. Comments?

[Reno]

I beleive mado makes us waste our entire turn in battle to eat a bean.
I eat a bean, my opponet attacks with his best attack, now I'm back in the same spot of dying soon. If my opponet charges an attack, then on his next turn he will probably 1 hit kill me...and no bean will save me from that.
If someone chooses to spend their "hard earned" credits on beans, I don't see why they should be punished.

[Epyon]

Reno is pretty much making my posts for me.

At the point where players have lots of beans, they should also have some pretty good moves. Moves that can kill a player of equal PL if it's charged for an extra turn. The saiyan healing pods are a good idea so that resting won't be so damn annoying.

And about sensus making saiyans that much better than Namekians, I have to disagree. Meditation is incredible in the PL gains and it also adds to current, so if a person is training and meditating, they can keep going for longer and can accumulate just as many if not more beans and items.

[Dalun]

Like I said, I'm new to this game. I didn't know that you get one/two hit KO's later on. I'm at the point where I'd be fighting tooth and nail doing my kicks and punches to take down someone of similiar PL and if someone else has a bunch of sensu beans and we're evenly matched and it comes down to creativity but then happen to have more sensus then I have I'd be pissed! Apparently it doesn't sound worthwhile to use the sensus later on so maybe it doesn't matter at that point.

[Reno]

ah, I see your point...

I'm not sure putting a limit on the number of beans you could use in battle is the best way to handle this though, or even makes sence why you couldn't use another.

[Epyon]

Like I said, I'm new to this game. I didn't know that you get one/two hit KO's later on. I'm at the point where I'd be fighting tooth and nail doing my kicks and punches to take down someone of similiar PL and if someone else has a bunch of sensu beans and we're evenly matched and it comes down to creativity but then happen to have more sensus then I have I'd be pissed! Apparently it doesn't sound worthwhile to use the sensus later on so maybe it doesn't matter at that point.

At the point in the game you're talking about though, I doubt anyone has any great amount of beans, unless they've got friends in high places.

[Mado]

Okay, so I'm thinking the final decision be to completely remove Sensu Beans from all shops. Make them purely drops (relatively rare) from NPC's, and quest rewards. I don't want to limit the amount you can carry, or the amount you can use in battle, as it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, other than the fact that we want to limit them. I like Cloud's idea of having Rejuvenation Chambers placed around the map on most planets (maybe not on a really hard planet, like Mado). I don't want players to be able to just buy them from Korrin, or if they can, he only sells a maximum of two every week to each player, and make them cost 1,000 credits or so. Does this all sound good for a 'final' decision?