Balancing the Races

[Reno]

Do you think the current races in Planet Mado are balanced? Do you have any questions or concerns about them and how they are balanced? Ideas, thoughts, or suggestions? Post them here.

Over 448 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes, and 46 seconds this round has been going on.

[Shyplaza]

I'm playing as a Namek and right now I know that if/when we start a new round I want to change races. It's hard to tell exactly how powerful all the races are since I can't see any of the techs. By this I mean, for example, I have no idea how powerful Super Saiyan (1-4) is or how long it lasts. Because of this I can't really gauge if any of the races are more powerful than I am. However, it seems that some of the people that I've been playing with who are different races are much more powerful than I am.

[Cloud]

Any great player can take any race and be really good with it. However, in the numbers game, a dedicated player playing as the Saiyan race is the usually the one with the highest powerlevel in the long run. Doesn't make that person the best player, but a lot can be accomplished with brute force.

With a bit of strategy, the other races can keep up for a while, but in the long run the math behind a Saiyans gains wins out. Which makes sense really since we've based the game on a show where this is also true.

We've tweaked numbers and perks so many times before, but we usually end up with a more complicated process ending in the same result.

I don't know. I'm not really complaining about it. Just rambling, really. I've wondered before what kind of game we could have made if we moved away from the DBZ universe and just made up our own shit with all the ideas we've thrown around throughout the years.

[Reno]

I'm playing as a Namek and right now I know that if/when we start a new round I want to change races. It's hard to tell exactly how powerful all the races are since I can't see any of the techs. By this I mean, for example, I have no idea how powerful Super Saiyan (1-4) is or how long it lasts. Because of this I can't really gauge if any of the races are more powerful than I am. However, it seems that some of the people that I've been playing with who are different races are much more powerful than I am.
Thank you!

What you said is very true, and I understand it's hard for the players to help balance things out when they don't see the whole picture. Planet Mado does make you find out everything for yourself, and we usually changes rules and how moves work, so even if you remember years ago how something worked, it's probably not the same today. We try to keep this game as close to the show as we can, however, this is just a game so sometimes sacrifices must be made for balance. An example of this is that Goku's super saiyan 1 in the show, and Friezas final form, were around a x20 multiplier(Rough guess). These are not the numbers we use in PM, for the obvious balance reasons.

You say some people you have been playing with are different races and are much more powerful than you. Did they start around the same time as you? Have you been very active? Although I don't doubt what you're saying is true, I find it hard to believe that a Namek would fall so far behind people that started at the same time, without a reason. Namek's may not start off as the most powerful, but after meditating 3 times a day and self training every single day they can, as well as in-game stuff like sparring and fighting, it doesn't take long for the Namek's to become the most powerful race. Namek's tend to stay the most powerful for a really long time, in fact a dedicated namek will be able to kill nearly every race in 1 hit because their powerlevel is so much greater. Personally, I would say they are the best(As far as high powerful goes) until transformations come into play, then the Namekians kind of get phased out(Much like the show).

Any great player can take any race and be really good with it. However, in the numbers game, a dedicated player playing as the Saiyan race is the usually the one with the highest powerlevel in the long run. Doesn't make that person the best player, but a lot can be accomplished with brute force.

With a bit of strategy, the other races can keep up for a while, but in the long run the math behind a Saiyans gains wins out. Which makes sense really since we've based the game on a show where this is also true.

We've tweaked numbers and perks so many times before, but we usually end up with a more complicated process ending in the same result.

I don't know. I'm not really complaining about it. Just rambling, really. I've wondered before what kind of game we could have made if we moved away from the DBZ universe and just made up our own shit with all the ideas we've thrown around throughout the years.

I agree.

I agree.

I agree.

Shit, I guess I agree with every you said, sir. ^_^
It would have been interesting if we created our own game from scratch, and I know it would have been awesome!!! I wish we could change the game now, but I believe it's too late... I know most of the players here now aren't kids anymore, and probably haven't even seen DBZ since then. The truth is, you never had to be into DBZ, or even heard of DBZ, to enjoy Planet Mado. I know a lot of members like that, that loved PM but never watched one episode of DBZ and when they finally did they didn't like "that stupid cartoon."

[Dalun]

Thank you!

What you said is very true, and I understand it's hard for the players to help balance things out when they don't see the whole picture. Planet Mado does make you find out everything for yourself, and we usually changes rules and how moves work, so even if you remember years ago how something worked, it's probably not the same today. We try to keep this game as close to the show as we can, however, this is just a game so sometimes sacrifices must be made for balance. An example of this is that Goku's super saiyan 1 in the show, and Friezas final form, were around a x20 multiplier(Rough guess). These are not the numbers we use in PM, for the obvious balance reasons.

You say some people you have been playing with are different races and are much more powerful than you. Did they start around the same time as you? Have you been very active? Although I don't doubt what you're saying is true, I find it hard to believe that a Namek would fall so far behind people that started at the same time, without a reason. Namek's may not start off as the most powerful, but after meditating 3 times a day and self training every single day they can, as well as in-game stuff like sparring and fighting, it doesn't take long for the Namek's to become the most powerful race. Namek's tend to stay the most powerful for a really long time, in fact a dedicated namek will be able to kill nearly every race in 1 hit because their powerlevel is so much greater. Personally, I would say they are the best(As far as high powerful goes) until transformations come into play, then the Namekians kind of get phased out(Much like the show).



I agree.

I agree.

I agree.

Shit, I guess I agree with every you said, sir. ^_^
It would have been interesting if we created our own game from scratch, and I know it would have been awesome!!! I wish we could change the game now, but I believe it's too late... I know most of the players here now aren't kids anymore, and probably haven't even seen DBZ since then. The truth is, you never had to be into DBZ, or even heard of DBZ, to enjoy Planet Mado. I know a lot of members like that, that loved PM but never watched one episode of DBZ and when they finally did they didn't like "that stupid cartoon."

I like it being based in the DBZ setting, but I like that people are making their own story-lines and making it just a "loose" basis with references and characters from the show.

I think that the best races I've seen played are the Duugo, Saiyan/Halfsie, and Namek. I think the Human are the weakest by far in the late game, even with Time Freeze (although I haven't seen what Shiki managed to achieve, I know for a while he was unbelievably powerful). Devils I don't know... I haven't seen any good devil players on my planet. How'd you find them to be Reno? I think they have the most depth to them and most variety of play styles you could use.

[Reno]

I like it being based in the DBZ setting, but I like that people are making their own story-lines and making it just a "loose" basis with references and characters from the show.

I think that the best races I've seen played are the Duugo, Saiyan/Halfsie, and Namek. I think the Human are the weakest by far in the late game, even with Time Freeze (although I haven't seen what Shiki managed to achieve, I know for a while he was unbelievably powerful). Devils I don't know... I haven't seen any good devil players on my planet. How'd you find them to be Reno? I think they have the most depth to them and most variety of play styles you could use.

I do like the DBZ setting as well, it at least gives us something to work off of. I also love how the members make up their own stories, that makes the game so much more fun for both player and ref. Even if they have nothing to do with DBZ, it is very much encouraged and accepted.

At the beginning of the round, I said the best two races are Duugos and Half Saiyans, without a doubt(Maybe even over-powered)! I also thought, and still do, that half saiyans are better than full saiyans, even though their gains are less and their saiyan bonus is less. The reason should be obvious.

The one race that was a wild card for me was androids. It's so hard to determine their balance, as so many things come into play on how they can progress compared to the other races.

Humans, well... Eh, they are a huge race to gamble on. They are perhaps the best fighters, but they gain pl so slow. Takes a lot of dedication to even be useful compared to your friends that are other races.

Devil's, well, a good friend thought they would be the best late game. I didn't share his thoughts at the start of the game(And still really don't), but I have been trying to prove him right, lol. There are a lot of different ways to play these guys, and the best part is that you can switch styles at anytime, or even use all the styles at once! I believe, on a Devil's Star, my devil could beat anyone in a fight. Am I over-confident? Damn right!!!!! ^_^ I'm going to try my best in the next month to make that statement true, assuming I can get some damn updates from my ref(Joking, Mado is an amazing man for keeping PM around, doing all the major stuff, and even reffing himself)!

EDIT: Eh, I guess I was wrong about beating anyone... Fuck, fuck, fuck a duck!

[Dalun]

I guess I'll comment on what I've seen progression-wise:

Strongest races:
Early game: Halfies, Duugos, Nameks - Devils I think have a distinct possibility depending on the play-style.
Mid-game: Halfsies, Duugos, Nameks, Humans (Well, maybe just Shiki) - Devils still a possibility
Late-game: Halfsies, Duugos, Saiyans (With myself personally thinking saiyans as the best)

Weakest races:
Early game: Saiyans (i got beat up soooooo bad!)
mid-game: I think mid-game just about everyone has the potential to be balanced... xforming races and Nameks have the advantage due to their multipliers and namek's insane meditation bonus... If a human can get time-freeze then they're beastly, but otherwise I think they start to fall behind at this point.
Late-game: humans, devils (although I guess I'll have to battle you Reno and find out...), Nameks fall behind as well (although they have some decent possibilities to stay abreast of everyone)

I left out androids because as you pointed out, there's so many factors that are involved. An android player needs an update every day without fail, otherwise they'll quickly fall behind. I think they have just about as many possibilities, if not more, different ways to gain PL and play. I think they could become the strongest if well played and getting consistent updates.

I also think that Kaioken is a pretty decent equalizer, at least for a decent portion of time for the non-xforming races. The only one I could see really falling behind is the humans as they gain only that 10%... Devils at least can xform twice a month to get gains against stronger opponents or you could use the saibamen... in a variety of ways.


I do like the DBZ setting as well, it at least gives us something to work off of. I also love how the members make up their own stories, that makes the game so much more fun for both player and ref. Even if they have nothing to do with DBZ, it is very much encouraged and accepted.

At the beginning of the round, I said the best two races are Duugos and Half Saiyans, without a doubt(Maybe even over-powered)! I also thought, and still do, that half saiyans are better than full saiyans, even though their gains are less and their saiyan bonus is less. The reason should be obvious.

The one race that was a wild card for me was androids. It's so hard to determine their balance, as so many things come into play on how they can progress compared to the other races.

Humans, well... Eh, they are a huge race to gamble on. They are perhaps the best fighters, but they gain pl so slow. Takes a lot of dedication to even be useful compared to your friends that are other races.

Devil's, well, a good friend thought they would be the best late game. I didn't share his thoughts at the start of the game(And still really don't), but I have been trying to prove him right, lol. There are a lot of different ways to play these guys, and the best part is that you can switch styles at anytime, or even use all the styles at once! I believe, on a Devil's Star, my devil could beat anyone in a fight. Am I over-confident? Damn right!!!!! ^_^ I'm going to try my best in the next month to make that statement true, assuming I can get some damn updates from my ref(Joking, Mado is an amazing man for keeping PM around, doing all the major stuff, and even reffing himself)!

EDIT: Eh, I guess I was wrong about beating anyone... Fuck, fuck, fuck a duck!

[Reno]

Pretty much agree with everything you said. There's always going to be variation.

Humans do seem to be the weakest at all points in the game, however, we are only considering 1 on 1 fights based on their current pl versus others predicted current pl. Humans, with time freeze, fair pretty well in group fights, despite being weaker than the other people involved. They are also excellent android-slayers because they don't rely on Ki really.

Yeah, I do think devil's are weak late game. I thought that before playing one, and still do. Most of my opinions now are based on how well I have done compared to how players of the other races are doing. I doubt any devil is more set up than me, and I have busted my ass earlier in the round. Since updates have became scarce, I have fallen behind a bit. I wish when I didn't get updates for 2-3 months that I was sparring the entire time, every day(Besides needing to rest). Sadly, I spend most of my "down time" locked into a fight or trying to move 1 spot on the planet's map.

I'm still not sure what's better, Halfies or Full Saiyans, and honestly I think it's impossible to come up with a solid answer that would always be true. Like all races, their are a lot of factors.

[Shyplaza]

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna roll either an Android or a Halfie if we do another round. I loved being a namek for the learning experience (med doesn't require a whole lot of RP'ing :) ) but I'm definitely gonna want to switch for next round now that I have a better idea of what I'm doing.

[Hyperion]

To balance out the advantage some of the other races have when it comes to pure brute strength. I think pure humans should garner some sort of reduced death penalty. In the series, humans would constantly sacrifice their lives to save the lives of their stronger saiyan and namekian friends. With this in place, the human character in a team could serve as the front line for battle since their significantly reduced death penalty is in play. Also, by conserving their PLs upon death, the likelihood of falling behind later in the game is also reduced. Remember that Tein was a quite capable fighter throughout the series as a self-sacrificer and was even able to survive a kick from the powerful Super Buu.

[Jonty999]

hi

[Kenbo]

To balance out the advantage some of the other races have when it comes to pure brute strength. I think pure humans should garner some sort of reduced death penalty. In the series, humans would constantly sacrifice their lives to save the lives of their stronger saiyan and namekian friends. With this in place, the human character in a team could serve as the front line for battle since their significantly reduced death penalty is in play. Also, by conserving their PLs upon death, the likelihood of falling behind later in the game is also reduced. Remember that Tein was a quite capable fighter throughout the series as a self-sacrificer and was even able to survive a kick from the powerful Super Buu.
That seems like a good idea, I agree with something like that. Also, maybe something to help out those in different stages of the game, allow temp transformations similar to false, ascended and/or ultra SSJ, and "super human" (similar to DBOL). These transformations, of course would have dramatic energy consumption but would provide substantial power boosts when in a tight spot...
hi
Hi, Jonty! But I think you mean to post in the "introductions" thread...

[noneused]

Hi, Jonty! But I think you mean to post in the "introductions" thread...

Jonty posted on 12-19-2011, at 07:29 PM
lol XD

[Kenbo]

I guess I wasn't paying attention
^_^;