Windows 7 $29.95 for students

[Ryujin]

Just need a student e-mail address =]

http://windows7.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/en_US/DisplayHomePage?resid=-nUJAwoBAkYAAFN1X7kAAAA1&rests=1257548379689

[Epyon]

You bought Win7? Like, with money?

[Ryujin]

Not yet, but I probably will. My current copy of XP is a pirated copy, but I like to support developers when they're headed in the right direction. If software becomes available for a decent price and gets good reviews, it makes sense to me to buy it to show support for a good product. Which why I would never buy Vista.

[Epyon]

You know, after seeing this, I might buy it too. You can get Professional for the same price.

[Sephiroth]

You couldn't give me enough money to make me put that on my laptop.

[Ryujin]

But you have a mac, correct? The mac OS is already superior to Windows OS anyway. But for those who HATE Vista (myself included), but want to upgrade to a 64 bit os to utilize all of their RAM, this is perfect.

[ville616]

My school gave me mine for free

[Epyon]

But you have a mac, correct? The mac OS is already superior to Windows OS anyway. But for those who HATE Vista (myself included), but want to upgrade to a 64 bit os to utilize all of their RAM, this is perfect.

I'd hardly call the Mac OS superior to Win7. The limits Apple intentionally places on users is a bit extreme. Besides that, if he's upgraded to Snow Leopard, that's even worse. Snow Leopard is the worst thing Apple has put out in my memory. It's essentially Apple's Vista.

My school gave me mine for free

Our school did for a number of students on a first come, first serve basis and I couldn't go get it when they were giving it out.

[Dark Defender]

I'd hardly call the Mac OS superior to Win7. The limits Apple intentionally places on users is a bit extreme. Besides that, if he's upgraded to Snow Leopard, that's even worse. Snow Leopard is the worst thing Apple has put out in my memory. It's essentially Apple's Vista.


^^this. atleast pc's are versatile. apple limits everything. just look at the iphone compared to a smart phone with windows mobile. i agree the os is better and sleeker on the iphone, but you cant do anything that apple doesnt want you to. unless you jailbreak it i guess,but the point still stands that they try to control everything their users do, unlike microsoft's os.

[Sephiroth]

I'd hardly call the Mac OS superior to Win7. The limits Apple intentionally places on users is a bit extreme. Besides that, if he's upgraded to Snow Leopard, that's even worse. Snow Leopard is the worst thing Apple has put out in my memory. It's essentially Apple's Vista.

^^this. atleast pc's are versatile. apple limits everything. just look at the iphone compared to a smart phone with windows mobile. i agree the os is better and sleeker on the iphone, but you cant do anything that apple doesnt want you to. unless you jailbreak it i guess,but the point still stands that they try to control everything their users do, unlike microsoft's os.

Hahahahaha... You two should learn to say... Anything with some substance.

[Mado]

So I paid for and downloaded it...and the files I downloaded are different than the files mentioned in the install instructions on their website-_- I wasn't planning on installing it tonight as I need to transfer some files to my external hdd first, but this is still extremely frustrating. It was supposed to be just one iso file, but instead was one exe and two other files with an unknown extension. I emailed their support, so we'll see what they have to say.

[Epyon]

Hahahahaha... You two should learn to say... Anything with some substance.

Eh, well, I don't see Microsoft filing patents for technology to limit what their users can do with the technology provided. They're not saints, but they're not as bad as Apple.

How much have you looked at Snow Leopard? Honestly, unless you're a part of the iCult, you really have to admit it's the most bug-ridden software Apple has ever released.

[Sephiroth]

Epyon: Please stop being retarded. You want complete creative control? Get Linux. Windows doesn't allow you to do whatever you want. If you want to knock Apple for not being completely free, then shut the fuck up and get off Bill Gates balls. He has a wife for that, you're just the bitch he pimps bullshit to.

Why does it matter how much I've looked at Snow Leopard? I could say any-fucking-thing, and you already have a predetermined response for whatever I say. Enjoy the view from the fucking pedestal.

[Epyon]

Epyon: Please stop being retarded. You want complete creative control? Get Linux. Windows doesn't allow you to do whatever you want. If you want to knock Apple for not being completely free, then shut the fuck up and get off Bill Gates balls. He has a wife for that, you're just the bitch he pimps bullshit to.

Why does it matter how much I've looked at Snow Leopard? I could say any-fucking-thing, and you already have a predetermined response for whatever I say. Enjoy the view from the fucking pedestal.

It seems I could say the same for you. But, you're right, you're not going to change my opinions (which just happen to be my responses) unless you have something substantial to say. And no, your opinion and insults aren't substantial.

I never said Microsoft was perfect, and I do dual-boot with Ubuntu. Apple is the biggest proponent of DRM technology there is. That's why they make me angry and upset. They are the epitome of everything controlling in the computing realm.

And don't get so angry.

[Ryujin]

Hahahahaha... You two should learn to say... Anything with some substance.

Missing the substance here?


Epyon: Please stop being retarded. You want complete creative control? Get Linux. Windows doesn't allow you to do whatever you want. If you want to knock Apple for not being completely free, then shut the fuck up and get off Bill Gates balls. He has a wife for that, you're just the bitch he pimps bullshit to.

Why does it matter how much I've looked at Snow Leopard? I could say any-fucking-thing, and you already have a predetermined response for whatever I say. Enjoy the view from the fucking pedestal.

No arguments, just insults?


Very effective, Chris =]

[Sephiroth]

You're both overlooking my argument, even though it was quoted by both of you. I shall help.

Words 5-11. It is not logical to say Windows is superior to Mac because of limits on what you can do with the OS in creative control. If that is how you make your judgements on what OS to use, you use Linux. Windows has caps, Mac has caps, Linux has none. This is the result of one OS being free, and the other two being sold.

1. Mac's are more reliable than Window based PCs. There are no blue screens of death. Mac users don't have to worry about viruses (this isn't to say they can't get them, but given the market share there is little reason for viruses to be created specifically for them - so right now, there is no active virus attacking them).
2. They are more user friendly. This is due to the simplicity of how they are designed from OS to the machine itself. They are easy to navigate, and built with the user in-mind. It takes a few minutes to understand how everything on a Mac works. The interface is just better, and more logically set up.
3. Customer service is vastly superior to Windows. There is just no getting around this fact.
4. They are ready to go out of the box. There is no installing needed, there are no drivers to set up or anything like that. You take it out of the box, push one button, and you're done.
5. The cost of Mac's is often pointed to as a problem, but when you compare the price of things you have to put up with on a Windows computer after buying it, there is little difference between the two. Mac's come ready to use, with all the programs there.
6. Mac's multi-touch technology is unrivaled.
7. Mac based machines can still run Windows. You can also have a windows based file and open it in on a Mac. This doesn't go both ways.
8. If you're into being green (environmental, if you're not) - Apple provides the most environmental laptops. They have been able to do this with improvements to how they build their machines from material to improving battery life.
9. Off the shelf, they run games equally. They have great video cards out of the box. They have equal processing speed. My roommate plays WOW every single day on his Mac and has never experienced any sort of problem.
10. The OS speed is just superior to Windows.

If you want to get into why Apple is so tight on DRM technology, it would probably have something to do with the fact Windows completely stole their OS back in the day. You could also get into how every cell phone company is now producing iPhone clones. It could also be how Windows is trying to change their interface to look more like Mac OS's.

[Epyon]

1. Mac's are more reliable than Window based PCs. There are no blue screens of death. Mac users don't have to worry about viruses (this isn't to say they can't get them, but given the market share there is little reason for viruses to be created specifically for them - so right now, there is no active virus attacking them).

I don't worry about viruses on XP or 7 (and not Ubuntu either). I torrent like a mad-man and watch porn. It's still not a problem for me. No BSODs? Maybe, because that's not the way Macs do errors. That's not to say they don't exist.
And this error (http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/10/12/2259228/Major-Snow-Leopard-Bug-Said-To-Delete-User-Data) would horrify me a LOT more than any BSOD. Never heard of that happening on a Windows PC. Another giant error here. (http://www.tuaw.com/2009/10/12/mobileme-mixup-address-book-snafu-exposes-personal-data-to-stra/) And there is a Mac BSOD. (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1545) It's also worse than the ones for Windows. Buy a new Mac or OS because I got a blue screen error? Ha!

2. They are more user friendly. This is due to the simplicity of how they are designed from OS to the machine itself. They are easy to navigate, and built with the user in-mind. It takes a few minutes to understand how everything on a Mac works. The interface is just better, and more logically set up.
I don't have any problems navigating older Windows. Besides that, you should take a look at Windows 7. This gap between interfaces has essentially been bridged.

3. Customer service is vastly superior to Windows. There is just no getting around this fact.

I wouldn't know. I've never needed to call Windows other than to reactivate my OS after I mod my machine. You're right that this wouldn't be an issue on a Mac, but neither would upgrading.

4. They are ready to go out of the box. There is no installing needed, there are no drivers to set up or anything like that. You take it out of the box, push one button, and you're done.

Windows machines bought in stores are ready to go with drivers pre-installed. You take it out of the box, turn it on. Done. For folks like me who enjoy system building, I don't care that it's ready to go out of the box. I get a machine that's built exactly to my specs for a great price because I put it together.

5. The cost of Mac's is often pointed to as a problem, but when you compare the price of things you have to put up with on a Windows computer after buying it, there is little difference between the two. Mac's come ready to use, with all the programs there.

All the programs aren't there unless you pre-purchase them. Honestly, I don't understand what all you Mac-users are talking about with these errors and problems. My machine has been running completely fine for two years. The only thing I have to deal with is updating drivers for my graphics card. Which Mac users have to do as well.

6. Mac's multi-touch technology is unrivaled.

On laptops, sure. But while Mac has just filed patents for designing multi-touch mouses, Windows already made these. (http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/microsoft-research-shows-off-multitouch-mouse-prototypes/)

7. Mac based machines can still run Windows. You can also have a windows based file and open it in on a Mac. This doesn't go both ways.

False. Windows machines can run OS X. PCs are PCs, and that's what Macs are. The only difference is Mac throws it in a pretty case and charges out the ass for it. Windows-based files WILL NOT open on Macs unless you're using Virtual PC (and this is hit or miss) or running Windows.

8. If you're into being green (environmental, if you're not) - Apple provides the most environmental laptops. They have been able to do this with improvements to how they build their machines from material to improving battery life.

I'm not sure how accurate this actually is, but you I'll take it for the time being. But Snow Leopard was busy burning up power (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2218024) because of a DST bug which spiked CPU usage to 90+%.


9. Off the shelf, they run games equally. They have great video cards out of the box. They have equal processing speed. My roommate plays WOW every single day on his Mac and has never experienced any sort of problem.

They don't run equally because you have to buy Mac-specific games. There's about a quarter of the games available to Windows out on Mac. They only have great video cards if you buy them with great video cards. You're right there's no difference in the hardware except the price Apple charges for it.

10. The OS speed is just superior to Windows.

I don't know where you got this info, but Win7 is breaking previous Windows records, and as far as applications use, it all depends on the programs.

If you want to get into why Apple is so tight on DRM technology, it would probably have something to do with the fact Windows completely stole their OS back in the day. You could also get into how every cell phone company is now producing iPhone clones. It could also be how Windows is trying to change their interface to look more like Mac OS's.
You know who worked for Apple on those OSes? Even designed Apple's first mouse and told them specifically to trademark it or someone would take it? That'd be young Billy Gates, that would. As far as iPhone clones, I'll assume you're not referring to Google's Android platform, but other phones that are copying it. Anyway, it could be argued that the iPhone is simply a rip-off of Prada's very first touch phone (the first there was). Also, if the iPhone was coming purely off of Apple's accomplishments, they wouldn't be getting sued by Nokia for infringement. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8321058.stm)

[Sephiroth]

Epyon, you're still overlooking the first argument (maybe the 3rd time I say it will be the charm?):

"Words 5-11. It is not logical to say Windows is superior to Mac because of limits on what you can do with the OS in creative control. If that is how you make your judgements on what OS to use, you use Linux. Windows has caps, Mac has caps, Linux has none. This is the result of one OS being free, and the other two being sold."

1. Viruses are a big problem for just about every other Windows user but you, apparently. I will say, it's really nice to not have any virus detection program, scanner, or anything like that on my laptop.
2. I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about anyone that has used a computer for more than 5 years. I'm talking about first time users, older folk, and people that don't want a hassle. They are just easier to use. You really can't get around that fact, Mac has been voted the easiest OS to use in numerous polls in multiple years. I'm sorry man, you cannot provide a legit argument against this.
3. For me to say Windows was a poor choice of words. Dell, Gateway, etc. should have been who I listed.
4. Yeah, you can turn them off. Then you can delete shit pre-installed that you don't want/need for an hour.
5. This one is difficult to know how to respond - you chose to rant against something I didn't say. I never brought up errors in that one, you did. So, I'm just gonna let you sort that out.
6. Congrats on the prototypes. I believe in the phrase: "Seeing is believing." I am on my laptop doing that stuff right now. Those aren't even out of production yet, so it's a moot point.
7. I never once mentioned "PC". "PC" stands for personal computer. Anything anyone uses that is a computer at home is a personal computer. Desktop, laptop, Mac, Dell, Gateway, whatever. I did google it though, and you're right. A windows based computer can run a Mac OS now. I would still argue that Macs have done more work on being compatible though.
8. You're talking about the OS. I'm talking about the new line of products they came out with, ranging from their phones, iPods, laptops and desktops.
9. There are less games out for Mac, but the major games always are and they run just the same.
10. I'm talking about applications, and I'm going off computer magazines I read from my mothers work where she is a computer tech.

I still haven't seen the Android, so no, I'm not talking about that specifically. I'm talking about all the clones. Everyone has been waiting for the "iPhone killer" but nothing better than it is coming out. The Android is just another name in a long list of phones that are supposed to overtake it. Until it happens, it's pointless to argue. If you don't like the iPhone, that's your opinion. It's domination of the market (in smart phones) shows you're not with the majority. And yes, Bill Gates worked for Apple. You don't seem to understand that all of that relates to why they try to protect themselves in the future.

Look, I don't believe this is even worth discussing. You actually care about computers where I could really careless. You really want to get into it? People are over buying in terms of power and tech. specifics. I had to write a paper on a study last semester that found just below 90% of college students that own laptops/computers only use them for the internet, a music player, and Word. Otherwise, they go unused. What that tells me is people don't need to buy what they are, because they could get small note books that just do those things for around 200-500 dollars. What I use my Mac for doesn't require me to need a ton of hardware I wouldn't use, but what my Mac provides is more than enough.

[Ryujin]

I haven't had any problems with errors since maybe junior years of high school (5 years ago). I agree most users only use computers for internet and bisic applications, but windows pcs/laptops are a lot cheaper for the same hardware.

I have no problem with Mac PCs or laptops, but they are way over priced and limits what the users can do even more than Microsoft, who I don't particularly like as a company either, but Apple seems worse.

[Epyon]

Okay, back to 5. Macs are just too expensive for what you're getting. When I first built my computer, a friend asked me why I wasn't getting a Mac. Despite gaming, I went ahead and made a desktop on Mac's site with the same specs as my computer. I bought all my parts and then assembled it for only $1200 (from monitor or G15 keyboard and G5 mouse), and the Mac would have cost me in excess of $2800 with the Mac's keyboard and Mighty Mouse. Eh.

In 7, I said PC just to define that Macs and Windows-based computers are one and the same. The hardware may very well be identical, and because of that they'll run the same things regardless. Macs do offer Boot Camp support for certain versions of Windows on certain Macs, but this is because they see a necessity since so many people need Windows for work, etc. If you're competent and want OS X on Windows though, all you have to do is install and next time you boot it will ask what install you want to run.

As far as 8 goes, if it's just the hardware, then it's available to Windows and Linux users as well. My hard drives are all "green" versions that use less electricity and power down to 5400 rpm when in light use instead of the max 7200 rpm.

Major games coming out for Mac? That's not really true. No Valve games are available on Macs at the moment and they're a giant for sure.

In terms of apps being faster, Adobe's products generally are, yes. That's why people use Macs for graphic design. Hopefully for Mac-users that will continue, although Adobe and Apple are having something of a fallout over Flash.

For the copy-right protection stuff, it's not so much them trying to protect their software that makes me angry as it is telling a person that can't use it with such-and-such hardware. It angers me that running OS X on a machine not bought from Apple makes it an illegal copy of OS X, even if you bought the OS. If you don't buy the hardware from Apple, the installation is illegal. That's why Microsoft doesn't openly support dual-booting with OS X.

Also, I don't hate the iPhone. It's a great device, especially when jailbroken. I just don't think Apple should have built a jail.

When it comes to people over-buying in power, you're probably right. To make people happy, they should pick up the new netbook that's running at $99.99 and has built-in 3G and tethering, making it better for internet than any MacBook or the iPhone. If people buy a Mac, they may not be overbuying in power, but they're surely overpaying.

[Sephiroth]

I got a steal on my Mac. I got a student discount, I got a discount for the school I go to, I got a shit ton of free programs because of where I bought it, and traded in my old laptop to further knock the price down. I kind of view that as a: "Am I retarded or not?" test. Do you walk up to a car sales man and just accept sticker price, or do you find ways to get it down? If I were to go to any Dell, Gateway, Compaq site and just put in what I wanted, of course that price would be high. The thing is, I'm not retarded and wouldn't pay for that. Look at this very thread: Windows 7 for 29.95 for students. The argument that they are too expensive is moot. If someone would be dumb enough to do what you looked at, yes - they are too expensive. With just about every other computer.

For 8, I didn't really mean that, but sure. That makes an entire green. I mean, it uses slightly less electricity? You're just not getting that point.

Well, WOW - the biggest game out - is on Mac. Star Wars the Old Republic will be available on Mac, which is supposed to be the WOW-Killer. Age of Empires is. Valve isn't, but you look at the Orange Box and wonder why?

Oh, because Apple owned you, you don't like them. Got it.

Blah blah blah. That is all I got out of your iPhone comment.

I'm probably right? You're probably in denial if you think every computer being bought is used to 100% of it's capabilities.

You have done nothing to show how Windows is better, you just seem to keep venting about how you don't like Apple. I mean, I still see very little of substance coming from you. How does you saying your harddrive uses less power make any difference? That does not make Windows a more attractive operating system, or base for a computer.

Like I said, I could really care less. I think it's funny my laptop was hundreds of dollars cheaper then a computer you built. I'm happy with my OS, you acknowledged yours could be better. I am just annoyed by how you blindly hate Apple when in all seriousness: You seem to know nothing about Mac OS, and even less about Windows. This would probably be different if you said anything about either of them with some seriousness. Instead you talk about how Apple protects the rights to things they design, or hardware. And to that, meh. If they want to copyright their shit, doesn't matter to me. I can legally use the operating system. My computer runs faster than most peoples. Ta-da.

[Epyon]

I got a steal on my Mac. I got a student discount, I got a discount for the school I go to, I got a shit ton of free programs because of where I bought it, and traded in my old laptop to further knock the price down. I kind of view that as a: "Am I retarded or not?" test. Do you walk up to a car sales man and just accept sticker price, or do you find ways to get it down? If I were to go to any Dell, Gateway, Compaq site and just put in what I wanted, of course that price would be high. The thing is, I'm not retarded and wouldn't pay for that. Look at this very thread: Windows 7 for 29.95 for students. The argument that they are too expensive is moot. If someone would be dumb enough to do what you looked at, yes - they are too expensive. With just about every other computer.

For 8, I didn't really mean that, but sure. That makes an entire green. I mean, it uses slightly less electricity? You're just not getting that point.

Well, WOW - the biggest game out - is on Mac. Star Wars the Old Republic will be available on Mac, which is supposed to be the WOW-Killer. Age of Empires is. Valve isn't, but you look at the Orange Box and wonder why?

Oh, because Apple owned you, you don't like them. Got it.

Blah blah blah. That is all I got out of your iPhone comment.

I'm probably right? You're probably in denial if you think every computer being bought is used to 100% of it's capabilities.

You have done nothing to show how Windows is better, you just seem to keep venting about how you don't like Apple. I mean, I still see very little of substance coming from you. How does you saying your harddrive uses less power make any difference? That does not make Windows a more attractive operating system, or base for a computer.

Like I said, I could really care less. I think it's funny my laptop was hundreds of dollars cheaper then a computer you built. I'm happy with my OS, you acknowledged yours could be better. I am just annoyed by how you blindly hate Apple when in all seriousness: You seem to know nothing about Mac OS, and even less about Windows. This would probably be different if you said anything about either of them with some seriousness. Instead you talk about how Apple protects the rights to things they design, or hardware. And to that, meh. If they want to copyright their shit, doesn't matter to me. I can legally use the operating system. My computer runs faster than most peoples. Ta-da.

All the things I said apply to the differences between Macs and Windows-based PCs. I'm wondering if you read and interpret at all here. Your laptop may have been hundreds of dollars less than my PC, but your laptop doesn't come close to the specs of my computer. As I stated before, I wasn't talking about how they protect things they design. They actively stop you from doing things with what they design that doesn't harm them.

I never said every computer is being used to its potential. I highly doubt that's the case. I say "probably" because I haven't seen anything on it, so I don't know for sure.

Not everyone can magically conjure up student discounts, and were you to buy it from a Apple Store, like most people do, then you're not going to be able to haggle. You can't haggle the folks at Best Buy to get the external hard drive for $50 instead of $90. Like you said, you got a steal. If everyone is getting "steals" the manufacturer and/or store isn't going to be making money, and that's all they're there for.

Yes, I acknowledged my OS could be better. But so could yours. In fact, for what I want from a computer, yours has much more to improve on than mine, including backwards compatibility. You go ahead and try to use some Apple-published software that's more than 3 years old on your Mac. I can still play games I bought 10 years ago for Windows 95.

Back to games. Of course WoW is out on Mac. They're cash whores. And AoE is old as fuck and no one cares. Name a recent or upcoming game other than an EA game that's on Mac. Also, Star Wars: ToR has been announced for Windows only. Not 360, not Mac. And what the hell are you talking about with the Orange Box? Apple never owned Valve.

My point about the hardware being green, not the OS was the fact that it's not the OS, which is what we're discussing. That, and hardware is compatible with any OS. That point is moot.

I'm not just venting about hating Apple. I'm telling you what their OS doesn't do and pointing out its flaws. Those flaws are what make it worse.

Why do I love Windows? Customization. I can change absolutely everything. Your Mac is not nearly as customizable in terms of the OS alone. Compatibility. Everything that I want to run runs on my Windows PC. Anything that I want to do, there's a program for it. I can pick every bit of the hardware that goes into it and I can buy from a variety of sources, not just one. File management is much easier as well. All my points are from experience as well. I used a Mac consistently last year and I had to help my roommate get stuff done.

It's not really fair to argue about built-in programs when Microsoft got sued for giving too much away only a decade ago.

Lastly, if you really don't care, why are you still in this thread?

[TheRAGER]

I have used Pc for years, never had a problem. I look at porn too. I EVEN USE LIMEWIRE!!! No BSOD, No Viruses!
I currently have a 1.2mhz processor
around 500mb or ram, no video card and a 40gb hdd.
all on win XP
While my PC is very well used and old, it still runs great.

my mobo is slightly damaged from use and attempted upgrade and 1 of the dimms of messed up. its just old

I will be building a ridiculous Pc With a Core i7.
I know my way around computers pretty well.

My g/f, her brother and their mother use macs...
It took me a pretty long time to figure it out.
So me, an experienced computer user, had problems using a mac under basic use. Why is it that you think old people and new users would have it so much easier then me? Are you trying to say im retarded?

The truth is they both are easy to use once you start to learn it.

Dont always believe what you hear in magazines. I have seen magazines contradict each other about stuff like that.

My little 16 year old sister wants a mac. I asked her why? She responds "Idk, they seem cool" this coming from a person that named her cat Proda (sp?) and wears brand named clothing and try to do/wear all the 'cool' 'in' stuff.

Apple beats pc in one area: Advertising!
Thats the only reason my sister wants one, they look pretty. I guess she never seen Alienware lmao


I am NOT pro Windows.
I AM Pro: Compatibility, power, speed and inexpensiviness
Should apple beat PC in ALL areas maybe i would consider learning apples interface better, which im not to fond of atm. btw, personally I hate the doc or is it spelled dock? idk that stupid scrolley thing usually on the bottom of macs... it ALWAYS gets in my way. yea i heard you can turn them off, i still hate them.

[Dark Defender]

Hahahahaha... You two should learn to say... Anything with some substance.

Way to give me negative reputation just because I disagreed with you. Quit being a whiny little bitch and just admit that apple sucks ass.

[Sephiroth]

I gave you negative reputation because I could really care less about it. I don't honestly look at someone's "rep" level on here and think it matters. I don't think you should either.

Nah, Apple is pretty well dominant. After seeing Windows 7, I can say congratulations - you own a poor mans Mac OS!

[Epyon]

I gave you negative reputation because I could really care less about it. I don't honestly look at someone's "rep" level on here and think it matters. I don't think you should either.

Nah, Apple is pretty well dominant. After seeing Windows 7, I can say congratulations - you own a poor mans Mac OS!

Right, Apple is dominant. That's why they have roughly 5% market share. Win7 market share is already above that and it's only been a month.

[Sephiroth]

From my understanding, we are playing extremes. I can admit that Apple "sucks ass" or is "pretty well dominant"? I'll go with dominant.

And just because it isn't the most frequently used doesn't mean it isn't better. There are a lot of products superior to others in their respective markets but aren't the most used or purchased. That can be due to monopolies, marketing, name recognition, monetary limits, etc. Pull your head out of your ass if you truly believe market shares represent how good any product is. I doubt the best toaster ever made is used by 100% of the market share.

[Epyon]

From my understanding, we are playing extremes. I can admit that Apple "sucks ass" or is "pretty well dominant"? I'll go with dominant.

And just because it isn't the most frequently used doesn't mean it isn't better. There are a lot of products superior to others in their respective markets but aren't the most used or purchased. That can be due to monopolies, marketing, name recognition, monetary limits, etc. Pull your head out of your ass if you truly believe market shares represent how good any product is. I doubt the best toaster ever made is used by 100% of the market share.

I never said market share=good. What market share does relate to is, well, dominance. Dominant is the word you used, not "good" or any other word relating to quality. Microsoft isn't the most used because it started out with some sort of brand dominance. If you'll recall Apple and its OSes have been out a lot longer. It was quality, usability, and compatibility that made Windows so popular.

And unfortunately for Mac fan boys like yourself, the latest release of Windows was great, especially in comparison to the bugs contained in Snow Leopard. I don't feel like getting into this with you again because you've already shown me how much you don't actually know.

[Sephiroth]

I don't even know why you re-opened the fight. I made a comment that wasn't even directed your way (which is ridiculous).

Dominance, as I attempted to show you in my post but apparently didn't make clear enough, can mean best. Since I get the impression that even attempting to talk to you will be something like talking to a wall, I'll suggest you talk to this page: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dominant

[Epyon]

I don't even know why you re-opened the fight. I made a comment that wasn't even directed your way (which is ridiculous).

Dominance, as I attempted to show you in my post but apparently didn't make clear enough, can mean best. Since I get the impression that even attempting to talk to you will be something like talking to a wall, I'll suggest you talk to this page: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dominant

Eh. No.

Apple is in no way dominant except in overcharging customers. Let's go ahead and use that page's definitions.

–adjective
1. ruling, governing, or controlling; having or exerting authority or influence: dominant in the chain of command.
2. occupying or being in a commanding or elevated position.
3. predominant; main; major; chief: Corn is the dominant crop of Iowa.
4. Genetics. of or pertaining to a dominant.
5. Music. pertaining to or based on the dominant: the dominant chord.

1. Microsoft is certainly controlling of the majority and has the most influence, etc. over computer users. This has nothing to do with being the best regardless.

2. Sorry, but Apple isn't really in a commanding or elevated position in the computer world and in this sense, the word still can't really be used to replace "best."

3. Check out that example sentence. You change "corn" to "MS" and "crop" to "OS" and then "Iowa" to "the world" and it works fantastically. Also has nothing to do with being the best. Just the most-used, most prevalent, etc.


4 and 5 just don't apply.

[Sephiroth]

Dear g-d, you are a whiny bitch.

"Market Share: According to IDC, Apple’s worldwide market share grew from 2.4% in 2006 to 2.9% in 2007. (See chart below.) Munster is conservatively modeling global market share to remain flat this year, but he notes that enterprise sales account for 70% of the worldwide market, a segment Apple is not aggressively targeting. In the consumer market, where Apple does compete, he estimates the Mac’s share is now 10% worldwide and an impressive 21% in the U.S."

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune....ow-21-percent/

In the last data that I saw (earlier this year), estimates on OS-X's market share ranged from 9.63~9.93%, reflecting a 32% increase in sales in 2008.

Going to the dictionary.com page:
describe something outstanding.
applies to a prominence based on recognition of excellence

Now just shut the fuck up already, you're a broken record. You are openly biased. You only attack things I say while never adding anything new or insightful. Your only agenda in this is to demean others, not to discuss.

And I could forgive you for all of that if you just weren't such a bore.

[TheRAGER]

You know, after seeing this, I might buy it too. You can get Professional for the same price.

How do you get Pro for the same price?
I would like that version but havn't seen it. maybe im looking in the wrong area.

[Epyon]

Dear g-d, you are a whiny bitch.

"Market Share: According to IDC, Apple’s worldwide market share grew from 2.4% in 2006 to 2.9% in 2007. (See chart below.) Munster is conservatively modeling global market share to remain flat this year, but he notes that enterprise sales account for 70% of the worldwide market, a segment Apple is not aggressively targeting. In the consumer market, where Apple does compete, he estimates the Mac’s share is now 10% worldwide and an impressive 21% in the U.S."

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune....ow-21-percent/

In the last data that I saw (earlier this year), estimates on OS-X's market share ranged from 9.63~9.93%, reflecting a 32% increase in sales in 2008.

Going to the dictionary.com page:
describe something outstanding.
applies to a prominence based on recognition of excellence

Now just shut the fuck up already, you're a broken record. You are openly biased. You only attack things I say while never adding anything new or insightful. Your only agenda in this is to demean others, not to discuss.

And I could forgive you for all of that if you just weren't such a bore.

You're right. I'm openly biased against Apple. I like Windows, I love Linux. I even like FreeBSD. Unfortunately for your arguments against me, this entire thread shows you're just the pot calling the kettle black.

And your increased market shares are pre-Win7. You're also only looking at the U.S., not the entire computing world, where no one really cares about Macs or iPhones (China (http://www.dailytech.com/An+Epic+Fail+Only+5+iPhones+Sold+in+Two+Weeks+by+C hinas+Largest+ETailer/article17026.htm), India (http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2009/gb2009041_266236.htm)). And how about you get me a link that works?
How do you get Pro for the same price?
I would like that version but havn't seen it. maybe im looking in the wrong area.

There's a link to click on.

[Dark Defender]

Dear g-d, you are a whiny bitch.

"Market Share: According to IDC, Apple’s worldwide market share grew from 2.4% in 2006 to 2.9% in 2007. (See chart below.) Munster is conservatively modeling global market share to remain flat this year, but he notes that enterprise sales account for 70% of the worldwide market, a segment Apple is not aggressively targeting. In the consumer market, where Apple does compete, he estimates the Mac’s share is now 10% worldwide and an impressive 21% in the U.S."

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune....ow-21-percent/

In the last data that I saw (earlier this year), estimates on OS-X's market share ranged from 9.63~9.93%, reflecting a 32% increase in sales in 2008.

Going to the dictionary.com page:
describe something outstanding.
applies to a prominence based on recognition of excellence

Now just shut the fuck up already, you're a broken record. You are openly biased. You only attack things I say while never adding anything new or insightful. Your only agenda in this is to demean others, not to discuss.

And I could forgive you for all of that if you just weren't such a bore.

That definition of dominence is opinion based though. if you go by the numbers (aka facts) ms is dominent.

[Sephiroth]

Call an english professor. Ask if something can be described as excellent if it's dominant. Then ask if that is an opinion or a definition.

Also, turn spell check on. "Dominence"? If you're going to argue definitions, make sure you can spell the word.

[Dark Defender]

Call an english professor. Ask if something can be described as excellent if it's dominant. Then ask if that is an opinion or a definition.

Also, turn spell check on. "Dominence"? If you're going to argue definitions, make sure you can spell the word.

I'll call an english professor right after you call your 2nd grade teacher and ask her to teach you reading comprehension first. the definition of dominance youre talking about is totally reliant ON OPINION! Holy mother of god. are you retarded? you linked the definition of dominance, which disproved what your point was, besides one frigging part of the definition which is based on an individuals opinion.

[Sephiroth]

Glad to see you learned to spell. That or copy and paste. Once again: "Call an english professor. Ask if something can be described as excellent if it's dominant. Then ask if that is an opinion or a definition." If you fail to read, I cannot help you.

But be clear on this: You are on a Dragon Ball Z online RPG message board arguing about if the word "dominant" can mean outstanding. I'll tell you what, if it bothers you to that point why don't you just pretend I said outstanding. Because it really doesn't matter, you just need to get laid.

And Mac is dominant:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Top_Ten_Reasons_To_Switch_to_a_Mac
http://apcmag.com/15_reasons_macs_are_still_better_than_windows.htm
http://chris.pirillo.com/50-reasons-to-switch-from-microsoft-windows-to-apples-mac-os-x/
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04/26/five-reasons-why-designers-are-switching-to-mac/
http://macvspc.info/pages/01f-pc_myths_debunked.html
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=115151
http://www.cio.com/article/127050/Eight_Financial_Reasons_Why_You_Should_Use_Mac_OS
http://www.matteoionescu.com/wordpress/mac-lov/
http://www.maclife.com/article/feature/25_reasons_why_nonmac_users_should_shut_their_damn _pieholes
http://mac.blorge.com/2008/04/06/10-reasons-a-macbook-pro-is-better-than-a-pc-laptop/
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/19746/5-reasons-mac-better-pc
http://www.applegazette.com/featured-commentary/5-reasons-why-im-thankful-im-using-a-mac/
http://www.madebymark.com/101reasons/
http://computershopper.com/feature/5-reasons-to-buy-a-mac-instead-of-a-pc
http://www.applematters.com/article/5-reasons-why-os-x-still-beats-windows/

[Epyon]

Glad to see you learned to spell. That or copy and paste. Once again: "Call an english professor. Ask if something can be described as excellent if it's dominant. Then ask if that is an opinion or a definition." If you fail to read, I cannot help you.

But be clear on this: You are on a Dragon Ball Z online RPG message board arguing about if the word "dominant" can mean outstanding. I'll tell you what, if it bothers you to that point why don't you just pretend I said outstanding. Because it really doesn't matter, you just need to get laid.

And Mac is dominant:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Top_Ten_Reasons_To_Switch_to_a_Mac
http://apcmag.com/15_reasons_macs_are_still_better_than_windows.htm
http://chris.pirillo.com/50-reasons-to-switch-from-microsoft-windows-to-apples-mac-os-x/
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04/26/five-reasons-why-designers-are-switching-to-mac/
http://macvspc.info/pages/01f-pc_myths_debunked.html
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=115151
http://www.cio.com/article/127050/Eight_Financial_Reasons_Why_You_Should_Use_Mac_OS
http://www.matteoionescu.com/wordpress/mac-lov/
http://www.maclife.com/article/feature/25_reasons_why_nonmac_users_should_shut_their_damn _pieholes
http://mac.blorge.com/2008/04/06/10-reasons-a-macbook-pro-is-better-than-a-pc-laptop/
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/19746/5-reasons-mac-better-pc
http://www.applegazette.com/featured-commentary/5-reasons-why-im-thankful-im-using-a-mac/
http://www.madebymark.com/101reasons/
http://computershopper.com/feature/5-reasons-to-buy-a-mac-instead-of-a-pc
http://www.applematters.com/article/5-reasons-why-os-x-still-beats-windows/

I tried to start reading through your list, and I was going to give an actual responses, but when one of them said "The Mac comes bundled with much more software" and "Macs cost the same or less than an equivalent PC" and "The Mac has much more style than any PC" I just had to stop. Now, this:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5941/bearridiculous.jpg

My PC is not a fashion accessory, and congrats on finding opinion articles. I could go do the same, but I'll not waste my time. It's clear you don't like facts.

[Sephiroth]

Alas! Mister Broken Record returns! Once again, not spoken to, but speaking none-the-less. Should I make the ABC joke, or can you at least admit you have a nasty habit of wanting to be the center of attention?

Macs don't cost more. We went through that. I could buy a Mac this moment for the same price as any PC. My Mac came with a lot of programs when I bought it, more than any PC I owned prior to that. These are both just facts.

If you want to get into the style thing, please see a previous post of mine in which it was clarified that the common college student uses the internet, word, and that's pretty much it. 90% of laptops are just fashion accessories. If you need to make a custom computer, go for it. At no point in any of this have I shit on you for doing that. I have stood by my belief that Mac is a better option. But just like I believe my car is a better option than a train, some people need that more. I could give two shits less on what you use, even if I think it's a retarded overuse of machinery and a waste of your money. Perhaps you should just shut the fuck up and do the same for me? Oh, wait. You can't even let two other people talk, how could you ever let someone be entitled to their own opinion?

Haha, my bad. Keep thrusting your opinion towards me. I could really careless. Like you said, you weren't even able to counter those lists. Hell, I didn't read them. You don't seem to perceive the fact this is a joke to me (much like you are to me).

[Epyon]

See my above posts. Read them this time, because you don't address anything said in them. If you need me to tell you exactly how they pertain to what you've said, just let me know.

You obviously do care about something here, otherwise you wouldn't keep on posting. Stop trying to act all manly and dignified. You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to computers, or even words like "dominance." You also seem to have a big problem with reading comprehension. I didn't want to get into being a dick, but you seem to be asking for it.

[TheRAGER]

Macs don't cost more. We went through that. I could buy a Mac this moment for the same price as any PC. My Mac came with a lot of programs when I bought it, more than any PC I owned prior to that. These are both just facts.

I feel the need to Chime in again on this.

Fact:
My g/f and I went into an apple store recently cause she need a new charger for her mac laptop. after the clerk figured out the exact kind we needed he proceeded to tell us the price. Thats when I busted out laughing. it was $79.99 new. No it doesnt have any fancy features. its just a charger. I then siad loudly enough for the others in the store to hear "I cant believe how evil a corporation apple is" The clerk giving me a look of approval but knowing he couldnt vocally agree for fear of losing his job.

and for the hell of it I looked up PC laptop chargers: $10.95 for a house charger. $9.99 for a car charger. Those are correct prices. Mac is obviously trying to RAPE their customers. So FUCK MAC! FUCK EVIL CORPORATIONS!
im not saying windows is not evil, im saying Mac is the greater of evils. so keep aiding the neo-nazis known as Apple.
They shall receive no funding from me!

that was actually fun to write

[Epyon]

He keeps going on about prices, but he's obviously lost in Appleland.

How about some facts on prices:

Basic 17" MacBook Pro (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC226LL/A?mco=MTM3NDcyOTc)-upgrade to 8GB RAM to bring it up to speed with the Gateway below and it's $3,099.00.

17" Gateway laptop (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834101205)-The Gateway laptop, which possesses a hard drive twice than size of the MacBook, a much better graphics card (one of the highest end cards in the GeForce 200 series compared to the 9000 series of the Mac), and it also has a webcam like in your Mac. Price? $1,899.99.

Yeah, Macs are definitely cheaper.

[Dark Defender]

Glad to see you learned to spell. That or copy and paste. Once again: "Call an english professor. Ask if something can be described as excellent if it's dominant. Then ask if that is an opinion or a definition." If you fail to read, I cannot help you.

But be clear on this: You are on a Dragon Ball Z online RPG message board arguing about if the word "dominant" can mean outstanding. I'll tell you what, if it bothers you to that point why don't you just pretend I said outstanding. Because it really doesn't matter, you just need to get laid.

And Mac is dominant:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Top_Ten_Reasons_To_Switch_to_a_Mac
http://apcmag.com/15_reasons_macs_are_still_better_than_windows.htm
http://chris.pirillo.com/50-reasons-to-switch-from-microsoft-windows-to-apples-mac-os-x/
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04/26/five-reasons-why-designers-are-switching-to-mac/
http://macvspc.info/pages/01f-pc_myths_debunked.html
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=115151
http://www.cio.com/article/127050/Eight_Financial_Reasons_Why_You_Should_Use_Mac_OS
http://www.matteoionescu.com/wordpress/mac-lov/
http://www.maclife.com/article/feature/25_reasons_why_nonmac_users_should_shut_their_damn _pieholes
http://mac.blorge.com/2008/04/06/10-reasons-a-macbook-pro-is-better-than-a-pc-laptop/
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/19746/5-reasons-mac-better-pc
http://www.applegazette.com/featured-commentary/5-reasons-why-im-thankful-im-using-a-mac/
http://www.madebymark.com/101reasons/
http://computershopper.com/feature/5-reasons-to-buy-a-mac-instead-of-a-pc
http://www.applematters.com/article/5-reasons-why-os-x-still-beats-windows/

I love how Internet arguments always end up with one person using the "you realize you're on an internet forum arguing about this, go get laid" speach. You do realize you're on here arguing as well right? Imean, that's hypocracy at it's finest. And I never said dominant can't mean outstanding. I agree with you. My point is that whether or not something is outstanding is based on opinion. So it's completely retarded to argue based on opinions you need to stick to facts. That includes posting completely biased internet articles. i hope to god youre not trying to become a lawyer or anything. so go get some FACTS and then come back. otherwise your posts mean nothing.

[Sephiroth]

Speech* I* mean* hypocrisy* its* you're*

I'm not even going to touch the grammar. You're 27? Did you graduate from high school?

You don't seem to understand that you believing MS is outstanding is also opinion. You believing Mac "sucks ass" is also opinion. You have not posted any singular fact in which I cannot deny that MS is better. You just haven't. You haven't tried to. You haven't even pretended to. Once again: You have made no attempt to build dialogue and have a real conversation.

But here, let me help you. I will pull things out of those lists that are undeniable facts.
1. The Mac is ready to use out of the box
2. The Mac has no widespread viruses
3. The Mac is easier to install and operate
4. The Mac has much better customer support
5. Macs cost the same or less than an equivalent PC
5a. A Mac costs about the same as a comparable Windows PC – for hardware and (for argument’s sake for those who don’t believe me) bundled software. And for those who still claim that Macs are still more expensive, they obviously have never seen or priced a gaming rig. Price / cost is relative. If you want a cheap machine, that’s your prerogative. The resell value on Macs has always been higher than that of an equivalent “Windows” machine.
6. The Mac can run Windows if you really need it
7. The Mac supports the same software that you are used to
8. Reliable sleep mode
9. Extremely fast boot times
10. OS X + Windows is better than just Windows
11. Easier to troubleshoot Macs.
12. More useful apps out of the box
13. Neat and contained system settings.
14. File sharing is much easier
15. Seems that the future of Windows development is happening largely for corporate environments and customers. I don’t take issue with this other than being someone who doesn’t live or work inside a corporate environment at home.
16. Time Machine. Wow. Can it really be this simple? “Simply select your AirPort Disk as the backup disk for each computer and the whole family can enjoy the benefits of Time Machine.” Do you understand what that means? And no, Windows Volume Shadow Copy is not the SAME thing.
17. You never need to defrag a Mac’s hard disk.
18. Joining wireless networks in OS X is easier and more refined, easily accessible. The tools for networking don’t seem overly complex, either.
19. Setting up services such as Windows File Sharing, FTP, and even Web sharing can be done on OS X with just a few clicks. If you’re telling me that I could set up FTP just as easily in Windows, then… it obviously can’t be done as easily.
20. Almost all of the audio and video formats out there can be played on the Mac with Video LAN Player (VLC).
21. Open Source Friendly: As a web developer, if there’s one skill you invariably have to develop, it’s the use of a *NIX terminal. Luckily, because OSX is built on top of UNIX, the terminal is ready and waiting. Every Apple ships with a wide variety of open source programming tools and frameworks built in such as PHP, Apache, and Ruby on Rails. Linux users who have grown tired of dealing with hardware issues, especially on laptops, often choose a Mac as their portable solution because it is UNIX based. It means that the entire world of open source software out there is pretty much guaranteed to run without much hassle. In a world where open source software is a way of life, web developers need a friendly environment to operate in.
22. Macs last longer.
23. If your Mac has a firewire port, guess what. If you press the T key while booting, the Mac itself turns into an external firewire hard drive.
24. Carbon Copy Cloner
25. Educational Discount

There, 25 quick ones. Does this mean that Windows is useless? No. This means that Macs have merit and are able to do things Windows can't. If Mac was truly an inferior system, it wouldn't exist in the market place; that is the idea of capitalism, right? 15 years ago Mac was completely inferior and that is why no one liked them, used them, or wanted them. What you are seeing right now is them doubling their market share and more (ie. pulling in new users) and they are doing this by offering things Windows isn't at this time. Those users are finding something in Mac that they aren't in Windows, which gives it just as much merit as Windows. If either was completely superior to the other than they'd be knocked out of the market. Why hasn't that happened? Because they both offer things to their consumers they want.

You did say one thing right: This is an internet argument. Drop the pissy attitude and have a grown up discussion if that is possible for you. And hypocrisy? I'm sorry, I've been under attack by multiple people. Have you? No. I'm sorry, I've posted reasons why my OS works for me and why I like it. Have you? No.

[Ryujin]

First off, why are you nit picking at two or three small grammar mistakes in a paragraph? Is that part of your strategy to make their arguments seem weaker? Either way, it seems like pathetic jabs to try to make other people look stupid in other wise sound arguments.


But here, let me help you. I will pull things out of those lists that are undeniable facts.
1. The Mac is ready to use out of the box

True... As are any PCs or laptops with Windows pre-installed. The difference is with Windows based machines you have a choice to build your own or buy it 'ready to use'.

2. The Mac has no widespread viruses

I haven't had any problems with viruses in the past three or four years on any Windows system I've owned.

3. The Mac is easier to install and operate

Complete opinion? I guarantee if I let my grandparents use a Mac or Windows based computer, they'd be confused as hell with the Mac. This isn't because Windows is easier to operate, but because its more well known and people are used to it.

That being said, I downloaded windows 7, put it on a flash drive, and it installed itself. Not sure how much easier it gets..?

4. The Mac has much better customer support

One of my good friends who goes to school at USC for movie production uses a Mac. He's told me several horror stories about getting his fixed (not to mention the prices). One of the problems was when his RAM went bad; it took a month for them to get his laptop back

5. Macs cost the same or less than an equivalent PC

I'm not sure how you're still arguing this? This is just completely false, wrong, ridiculous, untrue, and any other words you can think of that mean WRONG. Epyon has already posted examples of HP books with similar or better hardware at a drastically lower price. Try to replace your Mac RAM and tell me how much it costs. I believe it was 2-3x the price for my friend of what I found for equivalent PC RAM on New Egg.

5a. A Mac costs about the same as a comparable Windows PC – for hardware and (for argument’s sake for those who don’t believe me) bundled software. And for those who still claim that Macs are still more expensive, they obviously have never seen or priced a gaming rig. Price / cost is relative. If you want a cheap machine, that’s your prerogative. The resell value on Macs has always been higher than that of an equivalent “Windows” machine.

Wrong:

MacBook Pro:
Screen: 17"
Memory: 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
CPU: 2.8GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Hard Drive: 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9400M (INTEGRATED GRAPHICS CARD)
$3,099

ASUS G Series G71Gx-A2:
Screen: 17"
RAM: 6 GB DDR3 (speed isn't specified, but seeing as the mac is using the slowest possible DDR3, its either the same speed or faster)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9000 2.0G
Hard Drive: 640 GB 7200 RPM
GPU: NVIDIA GTX 260m
$1,799

ASUS is one of the best/top end brands for laptops or anything computer related (motherboards, GPUs, monitors). The ASUS laptop has a quad core processor as opposed to the Mac's duo, 2 GB more RAM of equal or faster speed, a larger HDD at a higher speed (RPMs), and a MUCH, MUCH better video card. All at $1,300 less than the MacBook, which is from my understanding, Apple's best gaming laptops... Now, if you built a $3,000 Sager Laptop, you would have a sick machine at probably double to triple the MacBook.

Now, looking at their desktops, the Mac Pro, you see similar results. Its more difficult to compare, since you're getting a pre-built machine. What I got from my comparisons was twice the price or more for the Mac Pro compared to a custom built Windows PC, almost twice the price as for a good brand that makes ready-to-go Windows PCs, or still slightly more than the ridiculously over priced Alienware and Falcon Northwest ready to go gaming rigs (neither of which I would ever waste the money on in the first place).

This point is just quite obviously wrong.


6. The Mac can run Windows if you really need it

True, but then as Epyon pointed out (two, or three times?) you're just running a lot more expensive Windows based machine...

7. The Mac supports the same software that you are used to

A rather abstract comment. What are we 'used' to? Most common software it does support, I agree, the main exception being games.

8. Reliable sleep mode

Errr, is this supposed to be a point for Apple? I'm rather confused by this one.

9. Extremely fast boot times

Actually quite comparable to Windows 7, which is dramatically faster than Vista. Not to mention the fact that with the money you save on not buying Apple's products, you can get more RAM and a faster HDD, which will increase boot times.

10. OS X + Windows is better than just Windows

I agree that it is nice they can support both, however I (and most Windows users) have no use for OS X.

11. Easier to troubleshoot Macs.

How so?

12. More useful apps out of the box

I absolutely hate anything that comes pre-installed on my PC. Which is why I like custom building them.

13. Neat and contained system settings.

As opposed to Windows where its all right there in the control panel...?

14. File sharing is much easier

I have not tried this with a Mac, so I can't say yay or nay.

15. Seems that the future of Windows development is happening largely for corporate environments and customers. I don’t take issue with this other than being someone who doesn’t live or work inside a corporate environment at home.

I don't see where this came from? In fact from what I've seen many, if not most, businesses are still using XP, so its not like MS saw how well Vista was selling to business and redirected their outlook in that direction. This seems to be a rather random statement.

16. Time Machine. Wow. Can it really be this simple? “Simply select your AirPort Disk as the backup disk for each computer and the whole family can enjoy the benefits of Time Machine.” Do you understand what that means? And no, Windows Volume Shadow Copy is not the SAME thing.

Really? Is that a point?

[Ryujin]

17. You never need to defrag a Mac’s hard disk.

Very true with the newest Mac X OSs. +1 point for Macs.

18. Joining wireless networks in OS X is easier and more refined, easily accessible. The tools for networking don’t seem overly complex, either.

Windows 7 on my laptop: There is a wireless icon in my taskbar. I click it and a magical box pops up with the available wireless connections and their signal strength. I click one and I'm connected. It actually auto detected it and connected by itself, so that 'process' wasn't even necessary.

How can it be easier than that...?

19. Setting up services such as Windows File Sharing, FTP, and even Web sharing can be done on OS X with just a few clicks. If you’re telling me that I could set up FTP just as easily in Windows, then… it obviously can’t be done as easily.

This is either stated incorrectly, which would be rather funny after you made fun of Dark Defender's grammar, or you're an idiot. This is how two things' difficulty being compared works: if one is the same difficulty as the other, then it is as easy, or can be done AS EASILY.

20. Almost all of the audio and video formats out there can be played on the Mac with Video LAN Player (VLC).

I failed to see where anyone said this wasn't true? If they did, it was a dumb point. Why wouldn't all video types be able to be viewed by third party software on either OS...? Where did this point even come from?

21. Open Source Friendly: As a web developer, if there’s one skill you invariably have to develop, it’s the use of a *NIX terminal. Luckily, because OSX is built on top of UNIX, the terminal is ready and waiting. Every Apple ships with a wide variety of open source programming tools and frameworks built in such as PHP, Apache, and Ruby on Rails. Linux users who have grown tired of dealing with hardware issues, especially on laptops, often choose a Mac as their portable solution because it is UNIX based. It means that the entire world of open source software out there is pretty much guaranteed to run without much hassle. In a world where open source software is a way of life, web developers need a friendly environment to operate in.

Where did you copy and paste this from, an Apple ad? I have never heard of any web developers choosing Apple over Windows because of this. This has to be one of the most fanboyish comments I've ever seen typed (errr, copy and pasted). Now, I HAVE heard of people choosing UNIX or LINUX over Windows or Mac X due to the customization advantages, but never Mac X over Windows.

22. Macs last longer.

Hahaha! Are you really using such an arbitrary point as an arguments?! Macs LAST LONGER? How long have you been using Macs by the way? I have friends who use 5 year old desktops or laptops. My family still has very old parts we use in some of our alternative PCs. This has everything to do with how well you take care of your computer and the quality of parts you buy than a Mac vs Windows argument. I might agree that Mac parts would last longer than the lowest quality PC part brands, but definitely not the higher quality ones. In fact, most of the hardware in Macs is made by the same companies that make Windows based PC hardware as well, so that doesn't even make sense.

23. If your Mac has a firewire port, guess what. If you press the T key while booting, the Mac itself turns into an external firewire hard drive.

You mean like when I connect a fire wire cord between my laptop and my PC and move files from one to the other? Oh yeah... Kinda like that... *shakes head*

24. Carbon Copy Cloner

Norton's Ghost

25. Educational Discount

Which you can get with Windows... Wait, that's what this thread is, isn't it??! Different companies give different discounts as well. How much does that discount save you, by the way? I hope it reduces the price to half, because it will take at least that much to compare to a Windows based PC price.





Your points are mostly either lies (prices), completely inaccurate (Joining wireless networks in OS X is easier and more refined), opinions (Easier to troubleshoot Macs), or random points that have nothing to do with anything (Almost all of the audio and video formats out there can be played on the Mac with Video LAN Player (VLC)).

The only thing I see a Mac being superior for is some video production. From what I know, the programs seem to be more optimized for Mac than Windows. Otherwise, you're just spending twice the amount of money for not having to defragment your drive.

Although, I'm sure you'll completely ignore all of my counter points and just use insults or bring up other irrelevant points.

[Ryujin]

That's funny by the way, your made up definition of dominance. Here's the ral dictionary.com definition:

dom⋅i⋅nant  [dom-uh-nuhnt] Show IPA
Use dominant in a Sentence
–adjective
1. ruling, governing, or controlling; having or exerting authority or influence: dominant in the chain of command.
2. occupying or being in a commanding or elevated position.
3. predominant; main; major; chief: Corn is the dominant crop of Iowa.

Windows COMMANDS the larger share of the market, so it is dominant. FACT.

Dark Defender was arguing your completely incorrect usage of dominance and you completely failed to see that and just attempted to make fun of him.

Its OK, I see that a lot when I argue with people and they refuse to give up their obviously failed argument, jumping from argument to argument, point to point, and eventually to insults, never really negating my arguments whereas I have already negated the arguments they feel the need to keep repeating or changing.

Except most of the time the people in this arguments don't resort to straight out, obvious lies.

Oh, and to cover one of your initial comments about your 'cheap' laptop. You got discounts for it (smart buying) which you can do for windows based PCs, you traded in your old laptop (really, this is a point for the mac being cheaper?), which gets you money you can use for... anything, such as a windows based machine? I'm glad you can tell us you're a smart buyer, which proves nothing.

[Sephiroth]

I thought you quit PM and were never coming back because you didn't get to have a battle?

[Ryujin]

Proven correct.

[Sephiroth]

First off, you make comments about Windows in your responses. I'm not sure if I will respond to all of them because this list clearly isn't about Windows based machines, but I may respond to a few if I feel it actually relates in some way.

1. Mac is ready out of the box. That is not a universal truth for Windows as you point out.
2. Mac's don't have wide spread viruses. Windows is the only OS widely attacked by them.
3. I have never met a single person that couldn't operate a Mac 5 seconds after using it. With the dock, all you do is point and click. There is nothing else to it. Windows has not been able to accomplish this.
4. Just last week I had to get a new battery for my laptop because my girlfriend spilt wine all over my laptop. I went into an Apple store, gave them my applecare number, and was handed a new battery for free. Prior to that, I've had to use Applecare 3 times. I was never separated from my laptop for more than a day. I have never paid a dime.
5. Congratulations, you have repeated the tried and true Windows side of the argument. Let me do my part and repeat the tried and true Apple side of the argument. You failed to factor in any sort of discount (I save about 450 dollars on the Mac you listed with my student discount alone), and that is also the short term cost. With AppleCare, an Apple user wouldn't spend a dime on that laptop over the next 4 years (first year is free, 3 years of Applecare). With Mac's having a longer life span than Windows based machines, you get to factor that in. I have a friend that is using a Mac laptop from the 90's. The trade in value on a Mac also remains higher than any Windows based machine. An typical computer user will also have to get maintenance done on their machines and not be able to do this themselves. Geek Squad, Ribbit Computers, etc will undoubtably overcharge them (it's how they make their money). With Mac, you won't experience that. Also, since nearly all of our applications come installed on the machine, there are no other purchases after the initial buy. This argument is based on the long-term price or short-term price. I prefer solving the long-term problem... I'll be the ant, you be the grasshopper.
6. Okay. It's true. Call also run Linux. Glad we have established this.
7. Not so much abstract.
8. http://apcmag.com/15_reasons_macs_are_still_better_than_windows.htm - Read, embrace, be better for it.
9. Alas, still not faster.
10. And más.
11. It's usually pretty easy to figure out what's going wrong with a Mac. There are three applications that help you and are all in one place and easy to find in the Applications/Utilities folder: Activity Monitor (a more powerful version of Windows Task Manager). Console (which shows all system logs in one place). Disk Utility (which helps you identify disk integrity issues).
12. Glad we can agree Windows should stop doing that.
13. Apple is very neat with its OS config settings. In Windows, there's many, many places you can change system-wide settings -- the registry, add/remove programs, the hardware manager, the services manager, network connections, control panel, etc. On a Mac, the OS config settings are basically all in the control panel (with a few exceptions).
14. -
15. The only point is that Windows is being directed more by corporations (who buy more than individuals as you'd expect) than regular consumers.
16. What time machine does for me is invaluable.
17. -
18. -
19. Please see bottom of the list.
20. See number 19.
21. See number 20.
22. See number 21. Also, for this number, after attacking me so long for being rude to others, making fun of them (which I wouldn't necessarily agree with that assessment of yours), you really do a double take here as you throw that to the wind.
23. Yeah, except firewire ports don't come standard on Windows based machines.
24. When it comes to the time requirement for that, cost, and all of that I'll take CCC.
25. Mac's education discount is just by far superior to Windows, granted as you point out they can't tell Dell, Compaq or any them what to do. But I will go to a place that has a discount and since they make their machinery can actually do that.

*19 - You did not read my post, and your response was made clear by this. I said I was copying and pasting reasons off of the list of links I provided. That makes this particularly funny after you insulted me twice in this number.

In response to your end comment, I will copy paste something I've already said in hopes you choose to read it. "Does this mean that Windows is useless? No. This means that Macs have merit and are able to do things Windows can't. If Mac was truly an inferior system, it wouldn't exist in the market place; that is the idea of capitalism, right? 15 years ago Mac was completely inferior and that is why no one liked them, used them, or wanted them. What you are seeing right now is them doubling their market share and more (ie. pulling in new users) and they are doing this by offering things Windows isn't at this time. Those users are finding something in Mac that they aren't in Windows, which gives it just as much merit as Windows. If either was completely superior to the other than they'd be knocked out of the market. Why hasn't that happened? Because they both offer things to their consumers they want." You could credit this to lack of stability for Windows (ie. things like blue screens of death) or them driving people away in other ways.

But when you so strongly stress that Mac's are overpriced, and during the greatest depression/recession in modern US history (since the Great Depression), how their sales skyrocketing? People either believe they are better for them, or they can provide something Windows can't. This is just a fact you can't deny, and I don't know why it is so important for you to try to.

In regards to the "ral" definition of dominant, I will first quote something I already said: "But be clear on this: You are on a Dragon Ball Z online RPG message board arguing about if the word "dominant" can mean outstanding. I'll tell you what, if it bothers you to that point why don't you just pretend I said outstanding."

To expand on that, I will quote something Dark Defender said: "And I never said dominant can't mean outstanding. I agree with you."

But fine, lets play this game.
Dominant
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dominant
–adjective
3. predominant; main; major; chief: Corn is the dominant crop of Iowa.

Predominant
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/predominant
–adjective
2. preponderant; prominent: a predominant trait; the predominant color of a painting.

Prominent
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prominent
–adjective
1. standing out so as to be seen easily;

Outstanding
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/outstanding
–adjective
1. prominent; conspicuous; striking: an outstanding example of courage.

There. Please learn to use the dictionary. Those definitions have definitions which imply meaning.

[Epyon]

So, Sephy, I clicked that link you posted about Macs being better. Guess what? Google Chrome warns me that the site is known to host malware.

Anyways, you said file sharing on a Mac was easier. This is false. To share files on Windows, I enable file sharing and connect to a network. Done. Unless I'm just taking files from someone else of course, in which case I just connect to a network. Terrifyingly difficult, yes.

Why are there no viruses for OS X? Because it has no market share. Check here. (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=9&qpcustom=Mac) About 5% worldwide. No one is making them because no one cares. Granted, 12% of households in the U.S. have Mac, but 85% of those households also contain a Windows PC. See here. (http://gizmodo.com/5374499/almost-nobody-owns-just-macs) Once your precious Mac gets the market share, people are going to start making viruses for it, and the Mac is less secure. (http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/pwn2own_winner_mac_os_x_is_less_secure_than_window s/)

Why is Windows so favored by corporations and people with, you know, important data? It's more secure against hackers.

Macs are pretty reliable, though not so much as Asus, Toshiba, or Sony. (http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/apple-laptops-fourth-in-reliability-study-20091118-im8t.html) In fact, they're just barely ahead of Dell.

Oh, and if you have to post 4 definitions to get to your word, then it's probably not meant to be used in the context you're praying for. You've also said and shown that Macs aren't superior, just different. So what's your point, then?

[Mado]

I just wanted to chime in. I read one of the pages you linked, Seph. And it seems to be fairly accurate. The only problem is, its more attacking Windows-based PC manufacturers rather than MS itself. I hate Apple's business philosophy of control, but it also apparently guarantees (more or less) that their PCs/laptops will be more stable and of higher quality.

[Dark Defender]

Speech* I* mean* hypocrisy* its* you're*

I'm not even going to touch the grammar. You're 27? Did you graduate from high school?

You don't seem to understand that you believing MS is outstanding is also opinion. You believing Mac "sucks ass" is also opinion. You have not posted any singular fact in which I cannot deny that MS is better. You just haven't. You haven't tried to. You haven't even pretended to. Once again: You have made no attempt to build dialogue and have a real conversation.

But here, let me help you. I will pull things out of those lists that are undeniable facts.
1. The Mac is ready to use out of the box
2. The Mac has no widespread viruses
3. The Mac is easier to install and operate
4. The Mac has much better customer support
5. Macs cost the same or less than an equivalent PC
5a. A Mac costs about the same as a comparable Windows PC – for hardware and (for argument’s sake for those who don’t believe me) bundled software. And for those who still claim that Macs are still more expensive, they obviously have never seen or priced a gaming rig. Price / cost is relative. If you want a cheap machine, that’s your prerogative. The resell value on Macs has always been higher than that of an equivalent “Windows” machine.
6. The Mac can run Windows if you really need it
7. The Mac supports the same software that you are used to
8. Reliable sleep mode
9. Extremely fast boot times
10. OS X + Windows is better than just Windows
11. Easier to troubleshoot Macs.
12. More useful apps out of the box
13. Neat and contained system settings.
14. File sharing is much easier
15. Seems that the future of Windows development is happening largely for corporate environments and customers. I don’t take issue with this other than being someone who doesn’t live or work inside a corporate environment at home.
16. Time Machine. Wow. Can it really be this simple? “Simply select your AirPort Disk as the backup disk for each computer and the whole family can enjoy the benefits of Time Machine.” Do you understand what that means? And no, Windows Volume Shadow Copy is not the SAME thing.
17. You never need to defrag a Mac’s hard disk.
18. Joining wireless networks in OS X is easier and more refined, easily accessible. The tools for networking don’t seem overly complex, either.
19. Setting up services such as Windows File Sharing, FTP, and even Web sharing can be done on OS X with just a few clicks. If you’re telling me that I could set up FTP just as easily in Windows, then… it obviously can’t be done as easily.
20. Almost all of the audio and video formats out there can be played on the Mac with Video LAN Player (VLC).
21. Open Source Friendly: As a web developer, if there’s one skill you invariably have to develop, it’s the use of a *NIX terminal. Luckily, because OSX is built on top of UNIX, the terminal is ready and waiting. Every Apple ships with a wide variety of open source programming tools and frameworks built in such as PHP, Apache, and Ruby on Rails. Linux users who have grown tired of dealing with hardware issues, especially on laptops, often choose a Mac as their portable solution because it is UNIX based. It means that the entire world of open source software out there is pretty much guaranteed to run without much hassle. In a world where open source software is a way of life, web developers need a friendly environment to operate in.
22. Macs last longer.
23. If your Mac has a firewire port, guess what. If you press the T key while booting, the Mac itself turns into an external firewire hard drive.
24. Carbon Copy Cloner
25. Educational Discount

There, 25 quick ones. Does this mean that Windows is useless? No. This means that Macs have merit and are able to do things Windows can't. If Mac was truly an inferior system, it wouldn't exist in the market place; that is the idea of capitalism, right? 15 years ago Mac was completely inferior and that is why no one liked them, used them, or wanted them. What you are seeing right now is them doubling their market share and more (ie. pulling in new users) and they are doing this by offering things Windows isn't at this time. Those users are finding something in Mac that they aren't in Windows, which gives it just as much merit as Windows. If either was completely superior to the other than they'd be knocked out of the market. Why hasn't that happened? Because they both offer things to their consumers they want.

You did say one thing right: This is an internet argument. Drop the pissy attitude and have a grown up discussion if that is possible for you. And hypocrisy? I'm sorry, I've been under attack by multiple people. Have you? No. I'm sorry, I've posted reasons why my OS works for me and why I like it. Have you? No.

There you go with the insults again. They're not relevant to the conversation, just so you know. And I haven't felt the need to personally post any facts about why ms is dominant, ryujin and epyon have already done it multiple times. And their posts are filled with facts, unlike the majority of yours. Again, we can't base our arguments on opinions, which seem to be the basis for your side. So we must do away with your "definition" of dominance meaning outstanding. So we use the more common definitions. Ms is dominant simply because the majority of the world uses their os and computers over apple's. This is a fact that epyon and ryujin have cited over and over. I'm not sure how you're arguing against this. Oh yeah, and I never said I thought ms was outstanding...not sure where you got that from. That was never the basis for any of my arguments...

[PalmtopTiger]

There's a link to click on.
(This is RAGER im at my g/fs house.)

Epyon I tried to find windows 7 pro. all i can get is home premium for 29.99
what link are you referring too? the 1st link posted here? the link in your email after signing up?

Please give me some detail on how to get it. my computer is almost finished and should be done by the end of the week.

[Epyon]

Enter your school info and after you log in it will take you to another page that actually lets you buy it. Right below the buy now button it will say "Need to connect to your school’s network domain? You can get Win 7 Pro for $29.99 Click here" in a yellow box.

So you just have to enter your school email and stuff first.

[Kyle]

lmao, I love internet forum fights :p
This still going on or did one side decide to stop putting so much effort into this?

[Kyle]

http://media.funlol.com/content/img/internet-is-serious-business.jpg

[TheRAGER]

Enter your school info and after you log in it will take you to another page that actually lets you buy it. Right below the buy now button it will say "Need to connect to your school’s network domain? You can get Win 7 Pro for $29.99 Click here" in a yellow box.

So you just have to enter your school email and stuff first.
Thank you. I cantbelieve i missed that like 3 separate times. lol

lmao, I love internet forum fights :p
This still going on or did one side decide to stop putting so much effort into this?
I believe is it unless septh finally realizes hes in a losing battle.

[Kyle]

Thank you. I cantbelieve i missed that like 3 separate times. lol


I believe is it unless septh finally realizes hes in a losing battle.

Yeah, he is by himself tho. Not that I blame anyone for not being on his side, but you have to admit it would be frustrating to be the only one arguing a certain point while a group of others attack you. (not saying against either side, I don't want to get pulled in)

[Epyon]

Yeah, he is by himself tho. Not that I blame anyone for not being on his side, but you have to admit it would be frustrating to be the only one arguing a certain point while a group of others attack you. (not saying against either side, I don't want to get pulled in)

Being alone is what happens when you support shit that's so shitty you can't convince anyone else it's good.

[Sephiroth]

Being alone is what happens when you share part in a legion of mental midgets. "Democracy rule doesn't work in mental institutions."

It is a losing battle. Epyon refuses to argue points, rather posts stuff like: "So, Sephy, I clicked that link you posted about Macs being better. Guess what? Google Chrome warns me that the site is known to host malware." This is the fucking point. I could go there with no problem. You can't. Think about that. Come the FUCK on.

Dark Defender has some sort of personal vendetta against me. I don't know why. It's because I gave him negative reputation or something.

I've also largely quit caring because finals are going on. What matters more? My education, scholarships, grades and personal life or two people I don't know, will never meet, and don't care about?

[Mado]

Being alone is what happens when you share part in a legion of mental midgets. "Democracy rule doesn't work in mental institutions."

It is a losing battle. Epyon refuses to argue points, rather posts stuff like: "So, Sephy, I clicked that link you posted about Macs being better. Guess what? Google Chrome warns me that the site is known to host malware." This is the fucking point. I could go there with no problem. You can't. Think about that. Come the FUCK on.

Dark Defender has some sort of personal vendetta against me. I don't know why. It's because I gave him negative reputation or something.

I've also largely quit caring because finals are going on. What matters more? My education, scholarships, grades and personal life or two people I don't know, will never meet, and don't care about?

NOFX!

:)

[Sephiroth]

Thank you, Matt.

[Ryujin]

*ahem* Sephiroth... "MAJORITY rule don't work in mental institutions." =]

I don't have anything against you, and I have nothing against Macs. I think Macs are well built machines, with a stream lined interface and a great marketing campaign. I also think Windows 7 wouldn't have been any good without the competition. However, I think they are over priced, I'm even less of a fan of Apple as I am of Microsoft, and for I want to do, they're not for me. The cheapest, most powerful computer I can build with high quality components is a windows PC. If the situations were reversed, and all the games I played worked on Macs, I'd buy a Mac.

[Epyon]

Being alone is what happens when you share part in a legion of mental midgets. "Democracy rule doesn't work in mental institutions."

It is a losing battle. Epyon refuses to argue points, rather posts stuff like: "So, Sephy, I clicked that link you posted about Macs being better. Guess what? Google Chrome warns me that the site is known to host malware." This is the fucking point. I could go there with no problem. You can't. Think about that. Come the FUCK on.

Dark Defender has some sort of personal vendetta against me. I don't know why. It's because I gave him negative reputation or something.

I've also largely quit caring because finals are going on. What matters more? My education, scholarships, grades and personal life or two people I don't know, will never meet, and don't care about?

You continue with the personal insults that you accuse us all of. Cute.

My point in the post you mentioned was that sites that host malware directed at 95% of people surfing the web generally aren't reputable. Besides that, I saw the title and know it's an opinion article. Before that, everyone point I've made has facts backing it up, in case you missed the links leading to hard data. You know, stuff with graphs and numbers rather than "Macs are better fashion accessories."

Go do your finals.

Oh, and:

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/892/gtfofail.jpg

[Dark Defender]

Being alone is what happens when you share part in a legion of mental midgets. "Democracy rule doesn't work in mental institutions."

It is a losing battle. Epyon refuses to argue points, rather posts stuff like: "So, Sephy, I clicked that link you posted about Macs being better. Guess what? Google Chrome warns me that the site is known to host malware." This is the fucking point. I could go there with no problem. You can't. Think about that. Come the FUCK on.

Dark Defender has some sort of personal vendetta against me. I don't know why. It's because I gave him negative reputation or something.

I've also largely quit caring because finals are going on. What matters more? My education, scholarships, grades and personal life or two people I don't know, will never meet, and don't care about?

Actually that would be Chrome's settings stopping him, not windows.
And I'm with ryujin, none of us ever said that macs are crap. none of use like apple apparently, except you. i guess i can see why though, you are a socialist, and apple is extremely controlling. our only point was that ms is the dominant company when it comes to computers because they have the majority. also, windows based pc's are cheaper, and can be just as reliable, or more reliable than a mac. All of these points ryujin and epyon have cited plenty of times with actual studies and numbers to back them up. All of the sources you cited were pure opinionated articles with no sources and no numbers.

[Sephiroth]

You're right: no one ever said Macs were crap. You just said they suck ass. My bad, this entire thing was a giant misunderstanding. How fucking stupid are you? Politics have nothing to do with computer buying choices, and Democratic Socialism isn't controlling. You could say capitalism is, because like you point out: Apple, a capitalist business, and Microsoft, another capitalist business, control everything about our computers, the prices, what to sell and where, and they don't allow their workers to unionize. But that is a different discussion for a different time in a very different thread.

Don't say "our" only point. You may have been on the Windows side of the fight, but you were not working with Ryujin or Epyon. You never once posted anything positive about Windows. Ever. You just spewed stupidity. The definition of "dominant" had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion, which is why I'm not surprised you cite that as the only point. Neither of them ever posted links to studies done on Windows vs Mac. Nor do I. That was never posted by anyone in this thread. That idea is just wrong. You never read the links, because there are numbers in them. You Sir, are the biggest waste of time I've ever met through Planet Mado. You top even Head.

Epyon, in the post you quote, lets break this down: I never complain about anyone insulting me. I never accuse you or anyone else of insulting me. I also say I quit caring, alluding to the point I realized this couldn't be a discussion but would have to be a fight. If it's a fight, why shouldn't I quote two NoFX songs and put some of your comments in perspective (being alone). You made a stupid ass comment with that, and me calling you on your mob mentality isn't even that insulting. If your skin is that weak though, I'll sincerely apologize to you.

That also wasn't your point. You didn't have a point with it, you just said it was detected to have malware. If you had had a point, I'm assuming you would have posted it. If you decided to not post a point, why did you post at all? Oh please, repost any link you had in an original post (before editing) that had a single graph because I sure as hell never saw any of that.

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Popular_Mechanics_Macs_Faster_than_PCs/ - In 2008, Macs faster than Windows, running both Vista and Leopard.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1 - Macs faster at program opening times, start up and shut down speeds, cost was virtually the same, and tested by 3rd parties.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/mac/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218400056 - "the company increased Mac shipments 25% month-to-month in May, compared to just 1% growth for the total PC market, Fortune magazine reported Wednesday... Apple's fiscal third quarter, to 2.5 million units from 2.4 million, Fortune said. The revised projection represents a quarter-to-quarter growth rate of 12%... Since then, Apple has gotten more aggressive with pricing, while staying within the high-end of the PC market. The company lopped up to $300 off the price of the refreshed MacBook Pro line introduced last month. At the same time, Apple cut prices on previous generations of Macs by as much as $850."
http://gizmodo.com/5285452/os-x-snow-leopard-vs-windows-7-the-final-countdown
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/head-to-head-snow-leopard-vs-windows-7-630035?src=rss
http://www.shoutmeloud.com/apples-snow-leopard-vs-windows-7.html

There, please, show me how the numbers are wrong. Bend them to fit your argument.

Ryujin, I didn't accuse you of having something against me. Through out all of this, I said that these two OS's (and the overall Mac vs PC) are put forth for different reasons. They both have merits and both preform different tasks. I have no issue with a cheap PC working better for you, or you owning it. All I have been saying is that it isn't for me. My first post in here was simply something like, "You couldn't pay me to use it." It wasn't, "None of you should use it." I can respect your point of view even if it doesn't match mine.

As for you correcting the lyrics: plyrics.com - Fix them there. I merely copy and pasted, but you are right.

Oh, and Dark Defender: Since you want to insult me for my politics, I'm also a Jew that lives with a black guy. You could call me a nigger loving kyke and make some holocaust jokes if you think that will further your argument.

[Dark Defender]

Way to give me negative reputation just because I disagreed with you. Quit being a whiny little bitch and just admit that apple sucks ass.

I never said macs suck ass...

[Sephiroth]

Apple = Mac. You can't weasel out of what you said.

[Epyon]

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Popular_Mechanics_Macs_Faster_than_PCs/ - In 2008, Macs faster than Windows, running both Vista and Leopard.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1 - Macs faster at program opening times, start up and shut down speeds, cost was virtually the same, and tested by 3rd parties.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/mac/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218400056 - "the company increased Mac shipments 25% month-to-month in May, compared to just 1% growth for the total PC market, Fortune magazine reported Wednesday... Apple's fiscal third quarter, to 2.5 million units from 2.4 million, Fortune said. The revised projection represents a quarter-to-quarter growth rate of 12%... Since then, Apple has gotten more aggressive with pricing, while staying within the high-end of the PC market. The company lopped up to $300 off the price of the refreshed MacBook Pro line introduced last month. At the same time, Apple cut prices on previous generations of Macs by as much as $850."
http://gizmodo.com/5285452/os-x-snow-leopard-vs-windows-7-the-final-countdown
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/head-to-head-snow-leopard-vs-windows-7-630035?src=rss
http://www.shoutmeloud.com/apples-snow-leopard-vs-windows-7.html

There, please, show me how the numbers are wrong. Bend them to fit your argument.



You're comparing apples to oranges in that Popular Mechanics article (PM has never been great on computer stuff, though they do occasionally build some sweet monster PCs) in case you didn't take a closer look at the specs.

We've already gone through real-world prices. I don't see how you're still arguing about that and the fact that they could decrease prices so much in just a month shows how much they're overcharging. Great, they had one great increase in a month, but I've seen the market share and it's essentially stayed the same and even taken a slight dip since the release of Win7.

The other links just insist that both SL and Win7 are better than their predecessors. In terms of performance, they both are. But SL was certainly a bug-ridden release, full of security holes which would leak all your MobileMe data, or delete all your personal files if you logged in with a guest account. Macs still don't have ASLR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization) for security and therefore are still inferior in that regard.

[Epyon]

You continue with the personal insults that you accuse us all of. Cute.


Dear g-d, you are a whiny bitch.

Your only agenda in this is to demean others, not to discuss.

And I could forgive you for all of that if you just weren't such a bore.

Maybe they make more sense to you this way. There's more, but I really don't have the time.

[Dark Defender]

Apple = Mac. You can't weasel out of what you said.

Uhh, apple = the company, mac = that company's product. i think apple the company sucks ass, but that doesnt mean i think their products do too.

[Sephiroth]

Me calling you a bore is insulting? Hell, that is just a fact. But yeah, fair enough. I called you a whiney bitch after I would post things stating my points and opinions in favor of Mac OS, and you never did that for Windows. Maybe I realized the futility of trying to have a conversation with you and just met you on your level?

Dark Defender, I was looking forward to a Holocaust joke. You disappoint me. No, we were talking about the products. You can say you were talking about the company and there was a lack of clarity for everyone, but at least with your timing your statement was directed towards the products.

[Sephiroth]

Oh, and you're still a broken record bore. It's asinine to beat this dead horse of a topic like you have, but you are unrelenting man. I even offered everyone a neutral ending saying each product services towards different things but that wasn't good enough for you. At this point, you're trying to squeeze blood out of a rock and it's boring.

[Dark Defender]

Me calling you a bore is insulting? Hell, that is just a fact. But yeah, fair enough. I called you a whiney bitch after I would post things stating my points and opinions in favor of Mac OS, and you never did that for Windows. Maybe I realized the futility of trying to have a conversation with you and just met you on your level?

Dark Defender, I was looking forward to a Holocaust joke. You disappoint me. No, we were talking about the products. You can say you were talking about the company and there was a lack of clarity for everyone, but at least with your timing your statement was directed towards the products.

Honestly, I was just trying to piss you off in general for neg repping me :)

But I really do dislike apple as a company, and i really do think their products are well done they just have their flaws like anything. some of their flaws have to do with apples business philosphy, but the products themselves are usually pretty innovative.

[Epyon]

I wasn't referring to the bore part. You make it bold and put it in italics. I just left it that way and it was right beside the rest of stuff I left there.

I did make my points, you just chose not to read them. Typical Mac-fan thing to do. If you're really that bored of the topic though, why are you still here? Why are you still posting? Why do you insist on continuing on if there's no point? Just to have the last word?

The fact of the matter is Windows PCs and OSX PCs may be "good for different things," but the truth is they're designed and intended largely to do the same things and one must be better than the other. If you want to know why Windows is better, reread this thread. Thoroughly this time.