Fighting

[Cloud]

This tournament has reminded me about certain aspects of fighting that I believe need to be tweak. We might as well discuss it as a group like with everything else.

I disagree with the idea that when player is twice the powerlevel of another he gets two turns to one when attacking. Being the weaker player, it is already tough enough being in a fight against someone who is twice as strong due to their chances of dodging, but getting attacked twice pretty much makes it impossible to win. I think we should do away with the two turns to one. The dodging alone should be enough of a benefit.

In a tournament, or any other situation where one player doesn't initiate a battle by outright attacking another player / NPC, how do we decide who gets the first turn? I think we should leave it up to chance. Sort of. The ref can roll a 20 sided die. If it lands on 1-15, the player with the higher current pl goes first. If it lands on 16-20 the player with the lower current pl goes first. That will reward the stronger(faster) player a 3/4 chance of landing an attack first, but it also gives the weaker player a fighting chance.

I also think some moves need to be tweaked, but I didn't necessarily want to post move descriptions just yet. I'd rather get permission to do that first.

My ideas aren't necessarily the solution, so feel free to post your own ideas on fighting instead of agreeing or disagreeing.

[Reno]

Some where in the mess of ideas I mentioned this but Mado didn't seem to like it. :-\

[Reno]

Oh, I had a question about fights also...

I think I asked this before, but can you use a move -like- kaioken as your Counter move?
I think my example was that if my opponet shoots an energy blast at me I should be able to Counter (Instead of trying to Block/Dodge) with any non-physical attack, meaning I could use something like kaioken and then would take the full damage from the blast. Then it would be my turn to attack.

Also, if my opponet uses kaioken for his turn, can I Counter that? Fire my own energy blast as a counter to his kaioken, or even counter with my own kaioken. Then it would be my turn to attack.

[Cloud]

Some where in the mess of ideas I mentioned this but Mado didn't seem to like it. :-\

I think all the fights yesterday raised some questions about the system.

[Ryujin]

countering only works with energy blasts, no physical attacks, solar flare, kaiouken etc. That being said, it might be a good idea to let people use kaiouken during their block/counter/dodge phase, but that brings up other problems. If that is allowed, then any transformation would need to be allowed then. It also means it wouldn't technically be a full turn move, so do we let players do something else after it if they use it for their turn? Not really fair to let something that can be done in your dodging phase take up a full turn.

However, if we do away with the two turns if you're stronger, then I don't think we need to add kaiouken to the dodging phase. If they go kaiouken, its your turn, then you decide if you want to go kaiouken or do something else.

Basically, I think we should do away with two turns and leave kaiouken as it is.

[Reno]

I was thinking about stuff like my opponet shoots an energy blast at me, and I counter with Tri-Form. None of the forms can block/dodge because I used my defensive turn, but only one form would get hit with the blast.

I'm not sure how the timing works when an opponet shoots an energy blast at you and you are able to counter with your own blast. But when the opponet uses non-attacking moves I can't counter?

Is it really a problem if you use your defensive turn to Counter with a move like ki channel, kaioken, transformation, whatever, if you are giving up your dodge/block?

[Mado]

Some where in the mess of ideas I mentioned this but Mado didn't seem to like it. :-\

That was before the fights last night and I remembered how the fighting actually goes.

I was thinking about stuff like my opponet shoots an energy blast at me, and I counter with Tri-Form. None of the forms can block/dodge because I used my defensive turn, but only one form would get hit with the blast.

I'm not sure how the timing works when an opponet shoots an energy blast at you and you are able to counter with your own blast. But when the opponet uses non-attacking moves I can't counter?

Is it really a problem if you use your defensive turn to Counter with a move like ki channel, kaioken, transformation, whatever, if you are giving up your dodge/block?

Yes it is a problem, because you are now basically getting a 'free' turn with those moves. If someone uses Kaiouken, you can't counter it with your own Kaiouken. That means they just used a turn to Kaiouken, and you didn't. Plus, the whole idea of a 'counter' is that you're countering someone's attack. If they don't attack you, you have nothing to defend against, therefore they cannot block/dodge/counter.
Counter–verb
to give a blow while receiving or parrying one, as in boxing.
^^That is the type of counter we are talking about here, so the only thing you can counter is a ki blast aimed at you.

[Mado]

This tournament has reminded me about certain aspects of fighting that I believe need to be tweak. We might as well discuss it as a group like with everything else.

I disagree with the idea that when player is twice the powerlevel of another he gets two turns to one when attacking. Being the weaker player, it is already tough enough being in a fight against someone who is twice as strong due to their chances of dodging, but getting attacked twice pretty much makes it impossible to win. I think we should do away with the two turns to one. The dodging alone should be enough of a benefit.

In a tournament, or any other situation where one player doesn't initiate a battle by outright attacking another player / NPC, how do we decide who gets the first turn? I think we should leave it up to chance. Sort of. The ref can roll a 20 sided die. If it lands on 1-15, the player with the higher current pl goes first. If it lands on 16-20 the player with the lower current pl goes first. That will reward the stronger(faster) player a 3/4 chance of landing an attack first, but it also gives the weaker player a fighting chance.

I also think some moves need to be tweaked, but I didn't necessarily want to post move descriptions just yet. I'd rather get permission to do that first.

My ideas aren't necessarily the solution, so feel free to post your own ideas on fighting instead of agreeing or disagreeing.

Yeah, I definitely like the idea of getting rid of the two moves if you're twice your opponent's powerlevel or higher rule. As far as who goes first...for the tournament, I just let the lower powerlevel player go first.

[Cloud]

Yea, but you might as well leave the first turn to chance I think. Doesn't matter I suppose.

[Reno]

Right, you can only counter a ki blast aimed at you right now. But can you counter that blast with a ki channel (kaioken, tri form, solar flare, whatever the case my be) or something? Or is it only energy blast vs energy blasts that can be countered?

My opponet fires a kamehameha at me, and instead of blocking/dodging I counter with a ki channel, then take the full kamehameha damage. Then it's my turn. Also, the timer starts on whoevers turn the move was used on, so in the case of ki channel the 5 turn timer starts on my opponets turn(If that's when I used it).

[Reno]

I remember you said that in a 1 on 1 fight it always goes back and forth between the two people taking turns. What about a group fight? Does the person who starts the "round" of attacks ever change?

1 vs 3 example:
Mado (10k pl) VS Reno, Ryujin, and Cloud (5k pl each).

After Mado, Reno, Ryujin, and then Cloud make their attacks, is it always going to be Mado's turn next? Or do you re-order them according to highest powerlevels now that the "round" of attacks is over (Everyone has got their turn)?

[Syaoran]

i think you should have the option of countering in the manner you described, using your wits, granted somethings wouldnt alleiveate you from being hit but they have other benefits so i like it. The way i think of it is you essentialy have 2 phases each turn. Attack and defend while in many cases your defending phase is trying to dodge or block i see no reason that you wouldn't be able to use it for other purposes at the cost of taking the hit. In the mannr reno has described you wouldnt be getting out of the hit unless i'm mistaken but managing it differently.
solar flare-well the beam was already aimed at you and is on its way you blinding the opponent isnt going to make it go off course
ki channel you still get hit, you get the idea i think
Just by having the countering a ki blast with a ki blast its using the defend phase to manage the opponents attack with an offensive attack of your own

[Reno]

[By the way, I'm not a big fan of the countering system. Cool idea, but not a lot of thought put into it I would like to see it used more, but still not have it overpowering. I'm talking about your basic energy blast vs energy blast counter. So I have been trying to think of new ways to make more use out of how it currentl works, thus these suggestions on how I was planning to use non-attacking moves as counters.]

Back to the original post, I still think the 2 turns per turn should be removed, and whoever initiated the fight should go first otherwise the srongest guy goes first.

[Cloud]

I haven't seen the new version of Kaioken yet, but I'm hoping it was nerfed properly. I still think it is wicked strong considering most fights don't go ten turns.

Instant Transmission should have some sort of benefit in battle. Like a 10% increase in dodge. I know this has been done before, but it could be added to the rule description.

Destructo Disc shouldn't always result in a limb being severed. I know if someone is three times the powerlevel it won't happen, but in the next round powerlevels should be much closer. I was thinking a set amount of damage first with a chance of severing added on my a roll of a dice. If you roll a six or something you get a limb severed. Another six and it's the head. Just a thought. I'd hate to lose all my limbs against someone with DD.

[Reno]

With all of these "race quests" and abilities, or whatever you want to call it, not being known to the players...It's going to be difficult for us to suggest stuff when we can't know everything. This has always kind of been in the game, but not as big as what I think you guys have planned...

[Cloud]

I think if you powered up to counter an attack there should be some sort of downside besies just being unable to block the attack. I think the attack should do more damage when it hits. Like 1.5 more damage or something.

[Syaoran]

i disagree, you'd already be taking on the full impact of the hit by not blocking any of it.

[Mado]

I remember you said that in a 1 on 1 fight it always goes back and forth between the two people taking turns. What about a group fight? Does the person who starts the "round" of attacks ever change?

1 vs 3 example:
Mado (10k pl) VS Reno, Ryujin, and Cloud (5k pl each).

After Mado, Reno, Ryujin, and then Cloud make their attacks, is it always going to be Mado's turn next? Or do you re-order them according to highest powerlevels now that the "round" of attacks is over (Everyone has got their turn)?

It will always go in the same order, but (with the current rules) if one of those people were now twice as strong as another, they'd get two turns against that person. However, with the new idea of getting rid of two turns, it would always stay in the same order. At least that's how I do it. How did you do it when you reffed?

i think you should have the option of countering in the manner you described, using your wits, granted somethings wouldnt alleiveate you from being hit but they have other benefits so i like it. The way i think of it is you essentialy have 2 phases each turn. Attack and defend while in many cases your defending phase is trying to dodge or block i see no reason that you wouldn't be able to use it for other purposes at the cost of taking the hit. In the mannr reno has described you wouldnt be getting out of the hit unless i'm mistaken but managing it differently.
solar flare-well the beam was already aimed at you and is on its way you blinding the opponent isnt going to make it go off course
ki channel you still get hit, you get the idea i think
Just by having the countering a ki blast with a ki blast its using the defend phase to manage the opponents attack with an offensive attack of your own

Yeah, I just don't like the idea of "countering" a Kaiouken with another Kaiouken. That seems cheap to me. So your opponent uses their turn to Kaiouken, using up their turn, then you counter with your own Kaiouken, meaning you don't have to use a turn to use Kaiouken? Not gonna happen.

[By the way, I'm not a big fan of the countering system. Cool idea, but not a lot of thought put into it I would like to see it used more, but still not have it overpowering. I'm talking about your basic energy blast vs energy blast counter. So I have been trying to think of new ways to make more use out of how it currentl works, thus these suggestions on how I was planning to use non-attacking moves as counters.]

Back to the original post, I still think the 2 turns per turn should be removed, and whoever initiated the fight should go first otherwise the srongest guy goes first.

Yeah, the two turns thing will be removed. See above about countering Kaiouken with a Kaiouken though.

I haven't seen the new version of Kaioken yet, but I'm hoping it was nerfed properly. I still think it is wicked strong considering most fights don't go ten turns.

Instant Transmission should have some sort of benefit in battle. Like a 10% increase in dodge. I know this has been done before, but it could be added to the rule description.

Destructo Disc shouldn't always result in a limb being severed. I know if someone is three times the powerlevel it won't happen, but in the next round powerlevels should be much closer. I was thinking a set amount of damage first with a chance of severing added on my a roll of a dice. If you roll a six or something you get a limb severed. Another six and it's the head. Just a thought. I'd hate to lose all my limbs against someone with DD.

Kaiouken has already been nerfed a bit, however it may get nerfed a bit more. I don't wanna do it too much, though, as next round it'll be very hard to obtain, and it'll be one of the main "perks" of being a good guy.
We can add that to Instant Tranmission's description. If used in conjunction with an attack, it can lower the person's ability to defend, or if used in conjunction with a defensive move, it can raise the ability to defend.

I like the idea for Destructo Disc. I'm gonna start a new thread about it so people can see it and post their thoughts.

[Reno]

Remove instant transmission completely, or make it nearly impossible to learn, or requires millions of powerlevels. Something. Anything. Gay move.

[Ryujin]

And don't let people fly to other players unless they are close enough to feel their ki (and it isn't hidden). Instant transmission makes sense as a late game thing, a reward to let you 'quick travel' to previously visited locations.

You CAN hide from IT right now... But it takes away a lot of the exploration when other players IT you to places they've been and you don't have to explore at all.

[Mado]

Remove instant transmission completely, or make it nearly impossible to learn, or requires millions of powerlevels. Something. Anything. Gay move.

You just gave me an idea for next round;)

[Reno]

Good, good.

Oh, I never answered your question. I don't remember how I did it (Taking turns in battle). Probably did it back and forth taking turns despite current powerlevels. I can't remember a whole lot really...

[Mado]

Good, good.

Oh, I never answered your question. I don't remember how I did it (Taking turns in battle). Probably did it back and forth taking turns despite current powerlevels. I can't remember a whole lot really...

What a surprise:D

[Reno]

Don't act like you didn't cheat to break my Simon record! ^_^

[Mado]

Don't act like you didn't cheat to break my Simon record! ^_^

What can I say? I have a superb memory...

LOL, I'm sure you didn't cheat:)