Ki Attack Tags and Unique Effects

Problems and Ideas
1

Each Ki Attack can fall under a Category pertaining to the Rock/Paper/Scissor architecture.
For example: Beam/Force/Disc.

If the types match, they immediately start a Ki Battle. If they mismatch, you refer to the type of Ki Type they are. Whichever type beats the other, takes priority (with certain special exceptions most likely). But if we say that Beam beats Force, Force beats Disc, and Disc beats Beam…we’d be able to implement unique advantages and disadvantages to Ki Attacks and create more opportunity to use them.

This would particularly benefit Planet Mado, as the most powerful thing you have in PM is your knowledge of the game. The more you play, the more you know what your moves do.
Then there are obviously ‘Utility’ Ki Techniques or Attacks that have a ‘Special’ Tag or something that indicates that it may break the basic Force/Disc/Beam rule, but this would also make support players work even better.

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2

Just to round out the idea… mind quickly detailing when encountering Beam vs. Beam. Or Rock vs. Rock?

I assume it is a dmg comparison like it is now.

Just making sure I have the right concept in mind.

3

I think, now this is a heavy “I think” because it kind of leans on my idea on the Alternate Ki Channel that I brought up in the Ki Channel Rework known as a ‘Ki Burst’, it should be a damage comparison to an extent. I’ll mildly explain because this idea is still in its brainstorm stage.

In a ‘Ki Battle’ when the two matching types strike each other, the Ki Attack Contest begins. Almost like a minigame of its own. (( Now, how Countering plays into this, I’m not exactly sure yet…so bear with me in the infancy stages )) Once the ‘ki battle minigame’ begins, there is a minimum of 1 ki charging stage for both sides before the initial attacker can ‘unleash’ the attack. This allows for the aforementioned ‘Ki Burst’ ability to be used on either side, which could change the overall tactics of whoever is attacking/defending.

Now, I don’t know exactly how it would all pan out just yet, but if we turned it into a kind of minigame…it could have a minor set of rules to help govern the situation. Allowing for an easier time for Refs to calculate and adjust, as well as Players to make decisions.

Then in this minigame, you could do a Rock/Paper/Scissor, %Chance, or some other Calculable method to Gain the Upper Hand in the Struggle and possibly overpower a foe due to a bonus from RP, Hero Status, Tactics, or just sheer power of Will.

This would give that DBZ effect of fights and give us a system to encourage more Ki Attacks to be used for defense as well as open up new ways for fights to happen.

There are obviously some holes in this idea, but I think with some refinement we could get some really cool effects and use out of some more of the outlier Ki Attacks and systems in PM.

(It would also help out Countering I think with the Force/Disc/Beam to increase the Base %Chance of Countering your enemies Ki Attack, since you know what type would beat which one is being fired at you. It would also encourage players to learn more Ki Attacks to have a few at the ready that can be used at an advantage.)

4

I’m vibing with this. (edit: I see your notes about the Special tag, hang in there with me while I wait for the coffee to kick in)

I propose we add 4th ‘tag’. Force, Beam, Disc,…and “Misc”. Lame name, I know. But hear me out… Maybe find a cooler name.

The 4th being something akin to “misc”, which basically excludes the attack from certain interactions - incompatible. I have more than Counter on the brain, I was thinking ‘Ki Absorb’ also.

Such as Solar Flare, Dead Zone, other similar etc… a way to give a tag to a move that causes it to be incompatible with certain other interactions: Counter, Ki Absorb, etc.

PMCS watches for certain moves to have the attribute “usesKi:true;” to produce interactions. With these new tags/attributes, we’d check for that presence also.

Edit for context: This addendum just helps me with hooks within PMCS. Naming things is super important in the markup in general.

6

That’s kinda what I figured the ‘Utility’/‘Special’ Tags would get used for.

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7

Hey Mado. Is there anything actionable on this just yet?

“Counter” and its programming completion is among the blockers for assembling a player-accessible PMCS version.

8

I like this idea, especially that it gives a really good reason to learn more abilities, but I’m not sure it would fit very well with the current attacks in the game.

It’s difficult to discuss without giving away too much information, but there really aren’t a ton of ki blasts in the game that would make sense to use as a counter/ki beam clash. For example, let’s say there are a total of 10 ki attacks in the game that make sense to use in a counter/ki beam fight scenario. If you split those into three or four categories, you only have two or three attacks per category.

@CaptnApplesauce could you give some examples of different ki blasts and how they would fit into the different categories? For example you said “Disc” could be one - destructo disc? I can’t think of any other disc type ki attacks.

When I think of a DBZ ki beam battle, I’m thinking of things like Kamehameha vs Gallic Gun.

But something like Tri Beam, which is a ki attack, doesn’t actually have a “ki beam” associated with it, IMO it wouldn’t make sense for Tri Beam to be usable as a counter for a ki beam clash. Maybe some ki attacks you shouldn’t be able to counter, like Tri Beam? Just like we already have some attacks that can’t be dodged or blocked.

Again I like the idea behind it, I’m just not sure how well it would fit into PM in it’s current state.

I want to add more and flesh out ki battles since that’s a huge part of DBZ and has always been a weakness in PM.

Maybe a bit simpler approach: have two types of ki attacks, one that can be used to counter/ki clash, and one that can’t. If you fire a ki attack that can’t be used to counter (Destructo Disc), your target can counter it with a ki clash beam (Kamehameha), and if the two connect, the ki clash beam (Kamehameha) always wins (or maybe the Destructo Disc can only win if it does 2x or more damage than the Kamehameha).

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9

Without knowing all the Ki Blasts in the game, it would be hard to dial in the different types (Force/Disc/Beam). My main idea behind the 3 main types is to give something a base higher priority over certain Ki types. That way, a well rounded player has the capability of gaining an advantage by using a different Ki type that ‘beats’ the other type by a Rock/Paper/Scissor like mechanic.

By this method, it would allow some Ki moves to take a priority over others and encourage having a well rounded skill base. This would also give the underdog a chance to overwhelm their attacker by playing tactically.

I think this could also factor into the Ki struggles. It would allow someone to play smart and gain advantages that create that underdog pulls ahead factor. It would benefit Counters and Clashes, plus give that flavor we all love.

As I said earlier in the post, you could also have the different types Clash/Struggle easier if they are of the Same Type. If someone is just much, much stronger in any case then they might just overwhelm their opponent. However, once percentages and types are factored into a set idea, you could have more of a strategic battle inside of a Clash/Struggle.