So I’m going to just say it–Ki Channel in its current form is a very cool idea but adds A LOT of time to fights. However, the potency of the ability comes from the 5 full turns of “full power” that you get that can put you back into a fight.
However, each Ki channel adds something like 1-2 hours to a fight. So in a dark, but near future, imagine if you have multiple characters in a PvP battle who all Ki channel in and around the same time. We all love to play the game and RP the cool wins and mourn the horrible losses. But I’m sure we can all agree as men of age (some more than others) that staying up until 1am to finish a bout isn’t ideal for any of us.
In comes a solution I’ve cooked up–what if Ki channel is re-worked to be more of a “limit break.” So rather than getting five full turns of going back up to full PL, players are given two turns of 1.5x PL? This would make Ki channel still feel powerful, lead to those badass DBZ moments where the tide of battle shifts in a big way and cut down on the time commitment when someone Ki channels.
I also think this would still make the “1/2 your original PL” rule feel in line with DBZ lore. Think about the times when Goku or other Saiyans get forced out of their SSJ forms–they are usually exhausted afterwards.
tl’dr old people get sleepy early. Make ki channel 1/2 as long, but stronger PL gains to compensate.
I would be very interested what the players thoughts are on the current ki channel, likes, dislikes. There might be something better we can all come up with!
Hard to remember how or why it was originally designed. Besides fitting the cool dbz moments of someone that seems to be out of the fight explode with some last ditch huge assault then is completely wiped out after.
I think I remember us wanting to make it so even if you are very low on current pl, you can still be in fights. This also prevented lower pl opponents from taking you out when you were low, however, you would need to make the first move (or survive their first attack) in order to have a chance at channeling. So you could still get jumped and lose to a weaker opponent.
I tend to like anything that encourages fighting.
“Aww, I’m currently too weak to fight this person, nevermind I’ll just ki channel and take them on!”
“Maybe I should wait to attack that guy, but then he might channel and beat me, so I better strike first!”
Ki channel is one of the most strategic abilities, too many fights are decided by this move being used correctly or incorrectly.
Unless I am remembering wrong, neither android can ki channel. Absorb androids don’t actually have any ki to channel, and infinite ki androids are essentially getting an unlimited and free ki channel before every attack and defense in a way, they are always re-ki channeling infinitely.
I don’t think there has been enough players that have picked infinite ki, but I’m convinced they can perhaps be one of the best races. Absorb androids on the other hand have proven time and time again to be completely broken, and funny enough, that has always been okay and no real desire to fix them. I don’t know if modern day PM is playing out so differently that any of that has changed, but, may be worth considering.
I think the real enemy that produces long fights is availability, turn time, and systems involved. If we streamline those, then I think that solves the root issue of time instead of looking to changing Ki Channel to speed things up.
How do we fix: Availability? Time taken on turns? Slow systems?
Couldn’t say at the moment, those questions I feel are far more technical. I do however think if we want to speed up fights for players and refs, we have to go to the root issues first.
Honestly the more PMCS develops, it may alleviate most time constraints of calculation.
Truth is, the calculation is the easy part now. It’s the human element in the responses. Both player and reff. We have the calculations instantly.
I think here before long, we’ll have PMCS connected to the website to be able to source things like PLs, movelists, items, etc.
Once that happens, that will enable us to generate links & pass those to players. Give them a choice… a reff managed fight, or something more video-gamey clicky.
I like the idea behind it, buffing the PL output but nerfing the turns. I’m open for discussion on changing ki channel, but I do think two turns isn’t enough to make a real impact in a fight.
I tend to agree with @CaptnApplesauce - and availability seems to be the biggest issue.
PM’s systems are loosely based around D&D, and anyone who’s played D&D can probably attest to fights taking the longest out of anything that you do. My tabletop nerd group and I have had plenty of D&D fights take more than one session, I think it’s just the nature of the beast when you have a turn-based system where you can RP pretty heavily. Add to that more than one player in a fight and it’s always going to take a while.
Yeah, i definitely agree it comes down to the time in between turns. Yeah 10 turns is a bit longer, unless used around the same time, but i think if everyone is sitting in the chat ready to go it really shouldn’t mean to much honestly. I think 5 is fair, 2 is definitely to short, 3-4 could work with a little boost.
I did stuff on Discord and moved it to this thread.
Ki Channel could have a Basic use and Alternate use.
For Example:
Ki Channel - Usable once per battle, this brings you back to full powerlevel. It lasts for five turns, and after those five turns are up, you go to half (50%) of what your powerlevel was right before you channeled your ki.
(Alternate Ki Channel) Ki Burst - You instantly Channel your Ki to 150% of your Base for 2 turns (can be used while charging a Ki Attack). After the 2 turns, you are reduced to one fourth (25%) of what your powerlevel was right before you channeled your ki.
(( You still may only Channel your Ki Once per Fight, regardless of which option you choose ))
I had an idea a while back for Kenjitsu. When using a Saiyan Sword, the move you use is called “Saiyan Sword.” Everybody just imagines its your standard oll ‘slash’.
At certain belts, you would learn how to stab, and/or cleave.
Alternative forms of attacks/moves could be super neato. I’d be game for disconnecting them from Fighting Styles, and into some other categorization of ‘learning’.
There is the elusive “Ki Deflect” this reminds me of. Where its basically a different flavor RP text, but mechanically; its just dodge.
While I do find the idea of many moves (and now styles!) having alternate uses, it may make them too powerful if you can use them all in the same fight. An example would be your sword can bleed the enemy or have piercing, well first you bleed them then switch to the piercing. You’re not having to choose one or another like the ki channel idea. Of course, if that is all part of a fighting style rework, that might just be one of the perks, but if that was just a regular move learned from master that’s probably too much.
This is actually something I’m really liking about alternate uses for ki channel, you can only pick one, and because ki channel is such an impactful move it could really make things interesting when one player chooses one of the alternate versions. I could even see something like in the example where a damage boost would want to be used early in a fight, but ki channel normally wants to be used late (and often, when used correctly near end of fight, the first person to channel loses).
What if the Ki Channel always requires an input from the player.
A player describes their Ki Channel, and how many turns they will be doing it. If they choose 5 turns, it acts as it always has.
If the player chooses 4 turns, the player is returned to full strength+20% for 4 turns.
If the player chooses 3 turns, the player is returned to full strength+40% for 3 turns.
so forth…
If the player chooses 1 turn, the player is returned to full strength+80% for 1 turn.
The return to the original PL divided by 2 - after the Ki Channel is over, remains constant regardless of choice. (though this might be reimagined also to balance)
This solution almost has the feel of the Ki Aura mechanic I’ve been searching for. However, I do think it still has the drawback of only being used once per fight.
Something like this probably is the easiest way to get this added.
I still like the ideas we were having in the other topic about Ki Auras as well! I don’t know if those should be a separate thing or all combined into a “ki channel” rework. I really liked the idea of having 1 “special” move (currently only ki channel exists) per fight, but of all the choices each player can only pick 1. Varying effects, one could be like current ki channel, or the discussed shorter turns it lasts for but increases to over 100%, but also stuff like this one increases your dodge by +50% for the next turns, or whatever we want to come up with! Pros and cons to some. Some good ideas to get your mind working on the possibilities in the ki aura post.
Here’s a link to the other topic: